I have been awarded the “Roar for powerful words” award from Cynthia Kunsman at undermuchgrace.blogspot.com. Thank you Cindy for your vote of confidence!
As a recipient, I am to choose and distribute the award to five other “blogs I love, can’t live without where I think the writing is good and powerful.” I’m also to define those qualities of writing that I find essential to writing good and powerful blog posts. Here are the three vital elements of powerful writing that I treasure:
Courage: God-given courage to stand against the crowd when the crowd is going down the wrong road. When one shares publicly that courage, it becomes a powerful word.
Truth told with love: While courage to take a stand is vitally important, so is the way that one shares the truth. When truth is shared with love, it becomes a powerful word.
Thinking outside the box: While many are hemmed in by traditions of men that they have accepted but never thought through themselves, when one steps outside of these man-made traditions in order to see things from outside the box, their observations can be a powerful word.
In receiving this Roar Award for Powerful Words, I am honored to award this same Roar for Powerful Words Award to a man who I find to be filled with courage, one who tells the truth with love and one who encourages people to think outside the box when it comes to mere traditions of men. The first recipient that I bestow this honor onto is Pastor Wade Burleson and his blog kerussocharis.blogspot.com. This blog has caused me to stand up and cheer for Wade’s courageous stand even in the very midst of persecution from his own brothers in Christ. Wade, you can pick up your award at theshamelesslionswritingcircle.blogspot.com/ and chose any one of the colored awards that you would like. Much blessings for your courageous and powerful words!
One of the arguments that complementarians employ against women in ministry is the argument that God only used women as prophets and leaders in the Bible when there were no men available at the time. Is this really a valid argument? Let’s have a look at two biblical examples.
Elijah thought that he alone was left as a prophet of God because he alone was serving God yet God corrected him by saying that he had seven thousand others who have not bowed the knee to Baal.
Romans 11:3 “Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.”
Romans 11:4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”
God has always had a remnant who followed him and thus God has never been without a man to serve him.
Let’s look at another example. Huldah was used by the Lord to bring a message to King Josiah yet God also had men available to be used. The prophet Jeremiah had been prophesying in Judah since the 13th year of the reign of King Josiah (see Jeremiah 1:2) and it was the 18th year of the reign of King Josiah (see 2 Kings 22:3) when Huldah was consulted as a Prophet of God to bring a message to King Josiah. So a woman, Huldah, was used by God even though Jeremiah was available and Jeremiah had already been prophesying in the land for five years. Even though Jeremiah was available, God used Huldah to speak his words to the king.
2 Kings 22:12 Then the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam the son of Shaphan, Achbor the son of Micaiah, Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah the king’s servant saying,
2 Kings 22:13 “Go, inquire of the LORD for me and the people and all Judah concerning the words of this book that has been found, for great is the wrath of the LORD that burns against us, because our fathers have not listened to the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us.”
2 Kings 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe (now she lived in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter); and they spoke to her.
2 Kings 22:15 She said to them, “Thus says the LORD God of Israel, ‘Tell the man who sent you to me,
2 Kings 22:16 thus says the LORD, …
The fact is that God uses women for his own purposes and it is not biblically correct to say that God only uses women when God has no man available. Let’s once and for all lay this false argument to rest. God uses women because it pleases him to use women and God still uses women today for his own glory and honor.
Many complementarians have been so used to hearing what women are not allowed to do in the body of Christ rather than what scripture says women should do as followers of Christ, that the focus has become automatically set to see restrictions when the subject of women in ministry is discussed. With this post I would like to lay out some of the allowances for women in ministry as well as the obligations of mature children of God including God’s female “sons” so that we can contemplate on God’s own instructions.
What should be the attitude of women who are dedicated, mature and reverent followers of Christ? In 1 Peter chapter 3 Paul has been writing about how women followers of Christ are to show their love for their Lord in the respectful way that they treat their husbands. Men followers of Christ are also to show their love for their Savior by treating their wives with love and respect as fellow heirs of the grace of God. Then in verses 8-17 Peter continues on to speak to both men and women about their attitude, their behavior and actions and their obligations.
1 Peter 3:8 (NASB) To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit;
1 Peter 3:9 not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing.
1 Peter 3:10 For, “THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.
1 Peter 3:11 “HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD; HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT.
1 Peter 3:12 “FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS, AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER, BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO EVIL.”
1 Peter 3:13 Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good?
1 Peter 3:14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED,
1 Peter 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
1 Peter 3:16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.
1 Peter 3:17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
Since Peter says that this is written for “all of you”, let’s focus on what we can see about God’s will for women from these verses. Peter writes in verse 8 that women are to be harmonious (of like mind with all believers) humble in spirit, kindhearted, brotherly (fond of the brethren which is the body of believers) and sympathetic. How does this work out in practice? Peter writes in verse 9 that women are not to return evil for evil or insult for insult but they are to practice giving a blessing even when they are reviled because women in Christ are called for the purpose of inheriting a blessing.
Peter goes on in verses 10-12 to encourage women to keep from speaking evil words and women followers of Christ are to do what is good and to pursue and seek after peace. When women followers of Christ live this way they have the eyes and ears of the Lord Jesus toward them because the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous and his ears hear their prayers.
In verses 12-14 Peter writes that God is against those who do evil so that if women are zealous for doing what is good that God will be on their side and look out for them regarding those who do evil to them. Women are told that even though they may suffer for doing what is good, God will bring them a blessing for suffering for the sake of righteousness. God tells women that when they are reproached for doing what is good, they are not to fear the intimidation of those who are against them. God tells women they are not to be troubled when they suffer for doing good and they are not to fear those who try to intimidate them, instead these women are to be prepared to defend their faith in God. Verse 15 says:
1 Peter 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
Women are not only allowed to give a defense to everyone who asks them to give an account, but they are commanded to do so. They are not told to be prejudiced against men but to give a defense to everyone. Women’s obligation is to be ready with a gentle and reverent spirit to give an account to whoever challenges them on their faith in Christ. When Jesus gifts and equips a woman she is to use these gifts without fear. In 1 Peter 4:10,11 Peter records that each one of us has been gifted and we are commanded to use our gifts for the use of the body of Christ.
1 Peter 4:10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1 Peter 4:11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
If God has gifted a woman to speak she is commanded to speak as one who is speaking the very utterances of God. She is to do this because it pleases God to gift her. When she uses her gift God will strengthen her in that gift because this brings honor to Jesus. Whenever she uses her gift she is bringing glory and honor to Jesus Christ her Lord.
What about if someone challenges a woman follower of Christ that women are to be prejudiced against men and must refuse to use their God-given gifts for the benefit of the men in the body of Christ? What if someone says that teaching the bible for the benefit of men is an evil act and not allowed for godly women? What if someone says that women followers of Christ are sinning against God if they refuse to turn away men from hearing them teach the bible? Peter instructs the women to keep a good conscience and in doing the good works of a mature follower of Christ, if she is slandered by those who hate her good works and who say that her good works are evil, these ones who have slandered her will be put to shame by her good behavior in Christ and her gentle and reverent spirit even during her persecution and her suffering.
1 Peter 3:16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.
1 Peter 3:17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
God’s word for women followers of Jesus, is do not fear intimidation and do not be troubled. Be glad that you are counted worthy to suffer for the sake of the Lord. Do not return evil for evil or return insult for insult but keep on doing what is good. Teaching God’s word is good. Using your God-given gifts is a good thing. Scripture never once tells women to turn their backs on men and to refuse to use God’s gifts for the benefit of men. That is prejudice and prejudice is not a godly thing. God’s way is to use your gifts for God’s glory without prejudice. Do this good work in a gentle and respectful manner without responding back with evil words if you are insulted and slandered by your brothers in Christ.
Let me tell you a story about our ministry partner Lorri MacGregor. Lorri was a Jehovah’s Witness for 15 years and when she came to Christ and had come to a full understanding of the truth of God’s word, God called her to teach the scriptures especially to Christians who had no idea how to witness to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Lorri was faithful to go wherever the Lord called her even though she had many barriers put up in her pathway because she was a woman. God caused her testimony to be heard by men and women, lay people and Pastors alike. Many Pastors were so impressed by her testimony and her ability to teach Christians how to witness to Jehovah’s Witnesses, that they allowed her to teach on this subject even though they have never allowed a woman to teach the bible to the congregation before. Lorri’s ability to make the gospel clear and to teach difficult subjects like the Trinity and make these teachings understandable to the average Christian was clearly noted and she was asked into many churches to share her testimony and her special gift of teaching. Lorri never refused to teach anyone because of their gender nor did she act in a prejudicial way to the men in the audience. When some objected to her teaching on the platform, she asked if she could teach from the floor using a music stand instead of a pulpit. Her humility and her respectful manner allowed her to receive a hearing and because of this many men and women were equipped to share their faith in a way that brought much fruit and brought Jesus much honor. Lorri’s ability and her gifts were strengthened by her experience coming out of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Pastors saw the benefit of her teaching as a unique gift.
Because Lorri’s desire was to use her gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ and it was not her desire to elevate herself or stand in open opposition to the tradition held by many Pastors and many churches, the doors opened to her for her to teach what is good. In fact her teaching was so clear and so easy to understand that Lorri was invited into the pulpit in places that had never before allowed a woman to teach the congregation. Lorri did not make an issue of being a woman teacher, she just used her gifts in a God-honoring way that benefited both men and women followers of Christ. She was not deterred by those who tried to stop her and who tried hard to put up a roadblock in her pathway. Lorri stayed the course and followed Jesus through every open door that he provided. The Lord provided ways for Lorri to serve in her gifts because she trusted him to make a way for her to serve him.
My path has been somewhat different than Lorri’s. My focus is not to go around the roadblocks but to respectfully and methodically dismantle the roadblocks with the gifts that God has given me. I deal with the opposing arguments head on and I use God’s word in context using God’s inspired words and his inspired grammar to understand God’s will for women.
If you are a woman who has been called to serve Christ in teaching the bible, yet you have been told that this work is forbidden to women unless women are willing to turn their back on men and refuse to use their gifts for men’s benefit, you need to see the hard passages in scripture on women in ministry in their context. I would encourage you to get a copy of my 4 DVD set called “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” so that you may have a tool to help you give a defense to everyone who demands of you an answer and this DVD set can help you give an answer with gentleness and reverence. Do not let anyone stop you from doing the good works that God has prepared for you.
Matthew 5:16 (NASB) “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
1 Peter 4:14 (ISV) If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the glorious Spirit of God is resting on you.
1 Peter 4:19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should entrust their souls to a faithful Creator and continue to do what is good.
1 Peter 2:15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
Colossians 3:24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
Don’t stop doing what is good. Do your godly works in a respectful way and trust that God will open the door for you to serve him in exactly the way that he has called you. If we can be an encouragement to you on this blog community, we are at your service.
What is the godly way for a husband to treat his wife? Should he take authority over her and make decisions for her by going against her will?Many complementarians think that this is what the Bible tells the man to do and so we ask, what would Jesus do?
We know that Jesus is called the bridegroom of the church so we can learn from the way that Jesus acted towards his bride while he was here on earth.Let’s have a close look at the topic of decision making.Just before Jesus was to die, Jesus was with his disciples and he knew that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He was going back to God.
John 13:4 (NET) he got up from the meal, removed his outer clothes, took a towel and tied it around himself.
John 13:5 He poured water into the washbasin and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to dry them with the towel he had wrapped around himself.
John 13:6 Then he came to Simon Peter. Peter said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”
John 13:7Jesus replied, “You do not understand what I am doing now, but you will understand after these things.”
John 13:8Peter said to him, “You will never wash my feet!” Jesus replied, “If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.”
John 13:9Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head!”
John 13:10 Jesus replied, “The one who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean…”
Notice in this passage that not only did Jesus take the position of a servant, but he did not force himself on the disciples to make their decision for them.Peter balked at having his feet washed and Jesus did not take authority over Peter. Instead, Jesus explained to him that it was necessary to allow Jesus to do this act of service in order to have a share with him.It was then that Peter made the decision to allow Jesus to do his work and to serve him.
So how does this illustrate how the bridegroom should treat his bride?It shows that although Jesus could have taken authority over the disciples, he did not do that.He allowed them to submit to his service.For the disciples submission was allowing the bridegroom to serve the bride and to give himself for his own body.There was no forced submission and the servant-hood of Jesus was not for the benefit of the groom, but for the benefit of the bride.
Why is this an example of God’s way?It is because if the bridegroom takes authority over his bride he violates her personhood.The submission that Jesus gave to the Father while he was here on the earth was an act of power not of weakness. It was an act of his own will not an act of one who had taken authority over him. Submission can be a godly example of power under control and it is the means to allow another person to serve you.Jesus does not violate our will but he woos us so that we will submit to his tender service.Taking authority over a person is forced submission and it is never advocated in the scriptures.
Any thoughts about why the husband is never granted the right to take authority over his wife?
Just a quick update to let you all know that our ministry is working on a DVD project on the Trinity. While it isn’t directly on the women’s issue, it will deal directly with the complementarian view of the Trinity and a biblical refutation of that view.
Until the DVD is done, I will be blogging less regularly so that I can keep my nose to the grindstone on this very important project. I do hope to get my next post up regarding the issue of marriage next week, God willing.
Any thoughts about the Trinity and complementarianism?
In conjunction with my new series on marriage started with my previous post and the question of whether a wife is to have a man take authority over her (as if her husband is required to rule her), click here to read an excellent blog article about the best example of a New Testament “God’s kind of woman”.
Can God choose to use a woman in ministry without first consulting with her husband? Must a woman’s spiritual decisions be filtered through her husband? These are some of the questions that complementarians have posited as a basis for saying that women cannot take any positions of authority in the church because women would need every church decision they make to be approved by their husbands before they would be allowed to make any decision. The story of Mary refutes this faulty thinking.
Was Mary a godly women who knew that she didn’t need a male authority figure to ask permission to say “Yes” to God? The complementarian example of a godly Christian wife is blown away by the obedience and example of Mary.
This is the first in a series about marriage and the connection between marriage to women’s gifts in the church.
Some people in an effort to keep women’s ministry gifts away from the benefit of men, teach that the term husband as the “head of the wife” means that men are to have authority over women and this eliminates women as having any kind of teaching authority in the body of Christ.
So does the term “head” mean “boss over” or “authority over” when it is connected to the term “body”? Also is the purpose of the head as one who holds back the body? Let’s do a biblical search to find out what God means so that we can fill in this sentence: The purpose of the head is to _______ the body.
In Colossians 2:19, Paul gives us a great word picture to show the relationship between the head and the body.
Colossians 2:19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Notice it is “the head from whom the entire body being supplied“…. The purpose of the head is to supply the needs of the body. This is a service to the body not a withholding from the body.
In Genesis we can clearly see this when the man became the first source of supply for his wife. Adam’s body was used by God as the source of the flesh and bone that was used to make the woman. When the man first sees his flesh and bone mate, he identifies her as his very own. He is the source of her body and she is the fulfillment of his own flesh.
Genesis 2:23 The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”
The woman was taken out of man and this makes her unique among all of God’s
creation. God then tells us what is to happen because of the intimate relationship
between the husband and his wife.
Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
We are told “for this reason” a man is to leave his home and join himself with his wife. For what reason? It is for the reason that God created the man and the woman to be joined together as a one flesh union. For this reason the husband is the one who leaves and cleaves. He is the one who joins himself with his wife. He is the one who sacrifices of himself to come to her. She is the body and he as the head that joins himself to her so that they become a true one-flesh union. A man has a great responsibility to initiate, establish and nurture this one-flesh union.
This is the beauty of the original creation. Yet there are those who see the distorted relationship between husband and wife after the fall as an extension of the original creation. Nowhere do we find the man ruling over his wife in the original creation. The original creation is the reason for unity. Rulership of one human over another was the result of sinful and selfish desires distorted by the fall. Genesis does not say that a man shall leave his father and his mother and rule over his wife. His purpose was not to rule over her but to cleave to her. The Hebrew word for “be joined to” or “cleave to” is the word “dabaq” and it means to stick strongly together like two pieces completely glued together. The meaning is intended as a complete unity. The man gives himself up and leaves his place to join himself to his wife. The purpose of the head is to join himself with the body in order to have a one-flesh union. The result is unity and intimate fellowship.
In this unity, a man will not hold his wife back from serving God with her gifts. He is to supply what she needs in order for her to use her gifts and to become the best that she can become. He is to open the doors for her so that she can serve without opposition. Marriage is not a hindrance to ministry. Marriage should be a way for a woman to be nourished so that she is able to minister in the body of Christ.
This is the last in our series about spiritual gifts and here we discover that spiritual gifts are a means for our obedience.
Scripture is clear that we need to desire spiritual gifts but we are also to use our gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ. Paul commands us to desire spiritual gifts because the church needs this edification.
1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
This verse is in the imperative and it is a command. The use of these spiritual gifts is not just an option but it is a matter of obedience. Jesus gave a parable that illustrates the fact that the use of God’s gifts is imperative and we will be called to account for not using our gifts.
Matthew 25:14 “For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
Matthew 25:15 “To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Matthew 25:16 “Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
Matthew 25:17 “In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
Matthew 25:18 “But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
Matthew 25:19 “Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
Matthew 25:20 “The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, ‘Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.’
Matthew 25:21 “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
Matthew 25:22 “Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’
Mat 25:23 “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
Matthew 25:24 “And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matthew 25:25 ‘And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’
Matthew 25:26 “But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matthew 25:27 ‘Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matthew 25:28 ‘Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’
Matthew 25:29 “For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matthew25:30 “Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
As women we desire to use the gifts that God has given us for the benefit and edification of the body of Christ just as we are instructed to do in 1 Corinthians 14. There are those who stand at the door of the assembly and refuse to let women’s gifts in. They see themselves as doorkeepers and as official spiritual gift police whose position it is to stop women’s gifts from being used for the edification of men. But we desire to be faithful to God and when man comes against what God has ordained, we must obey God rather than man.
It was on this day 490 years ago that a Catholic priest named Martin Luther nailed his “95 Theses Against the Sale of Indulgences” on the Door of Wittenberg Castle. October 31 became known as Reformation Day because Martin Luther refused to accept man’s tradition over the bible. Martin Luther’s own words ring loud and clear against man’s imposition of laws and tradition that are not found in scripture. He stood strong as he said:
Unless I am convinced by Scripture and by plain reason and not by Popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, my conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me.
Pastor Wade Burleson has written a wonderful word of encouragement on this Reformation Day that I would like to quote:
Have a great Reformation Day, and may you and I work toward reform in our churches and our convention that leads to our collective conscience held captive to the word of God – and nothing else. Man’s rules, religious regulations or denominational traditions that pretend to be on par with Scripture and lead anyone away from faith in Christ alone, trust in Scripture alone, and rest in God’s grace alone are to be resisted with as much energy as Luther resisted indulgences. Here we stand, we can do no other.
Martin Luther faced death as he stood against the religious rulers of that day. Today women do not face death but many of them face name-calling, prejudice and character assassination merely because they chose to be obedient to Christ with their God-given gifts. But no name-calling or character assassination will ever come close to stopping us from ministering in Jesus name when it is the Master who has commanded us to be obedient.
As Luther stood strong against the tradition of men, I too want to stand strong in encouraging the use of women’s gifts that God has commanded all of us Christian woman to use for the benefit of the entire body of Christ. Unless I am convinced by Scripture and by plain reason that women are not allowed to use their God-given gifts for the benefit of men, and not by Popes, church councils or men who have set themselves against women’s gifts used for the edification of men, but who have also so often contradicted themselves in their man-made rules about what women can and cannot do, my conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me.
While freeing women to minister with their God-given to the entire body of Christ has been a very strong passion for me, it has not been the main focus of my ministry. In 1988 God called me to give of my time, my money and my talents to help Jehovah’s Witnesses find the truth about the real Jesus Christ and to come free from the bondage of the Watchtower. Several years ago the Lord answered the desire of my heart and allowed me to go into full-time ministry. As a video editor, researcher and full time apologist, I have been busy serving the Lord and my husband joined with me as we joined our ministry together with Keith and Lorri MacGregor of MacGregor Ministries working as a team to produce instructional DVDs on witnessing to the cults including correcting false doctrine spread by the cults against the essentials of the Christian faith.
In June of 2007 we moved to the city where the headquarters of MacGregor Ministries is located and we prepared to take over this very effective Canadian ministry/charity. However there has been very strong opposition to our ministry by those who oppose anyone who preaches the Gospel to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and other cult groups. The Canadian government has received several complaints against our charity that witnessing to the cults and exposing the false doctrine is not a “charitable” work.
MacGregor Ministries (MM Outreach) has been a registered Canadian charity since 1979 and neither Keith nor Lorri MacGregor have taken a salary from the ministry choosing instead to use the funds to spread the gospel of Jesus. Richard and I have also joined with the MacGregors working for the ministry without salary. With this complaint on file the Canadian government has chosen to start the process of shutting down our ministry saying that while preaching the gospel is a valid charitable work, reaching those in other faiths for Christ is not charitable and because this is considered to be our primary work they want to pull our charity status and take away our equipment and our funds that we have set aside for ministry work.
We have made attempts to separate our work of preaching the gospel to the cults from our regular work of ministering to the body of Christ by placing our web site and our quarterly magazine into the control of a new incorporated business that we set up, (MM Outreach Inc) however we are unsure if this will be good enough to stop the Canadian government from shutting us down. Yesterday we received another notice about still another complaint from someone who said that exposing other religions is not charitable.
Would you please pray for us that God will be glorified in our lives and in our ministry so that we can continue ministering to those who have lost their way in the world of the cults? We need God’s protection through this time of persecution. The next few weeks will be crucial as the Canadian government may or may not allow the changes that we have made to stop the process of deregistering the charity. Almost 30 years of ministry is at stake and freedom to minister as God has called us.
What has the spiritual gifts got to do with authority? It has plenty to do with God’s granting us all authority to use our gifts as representatives of God himself. In 1 Peter 4:10, 11 God tell us:
1 Peter 4:10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1 Peter 4:11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Our gifts come with the ability to use these gifts with the authority from God himself. The one who speaks is to speak as speaking the “oracles of God” or the “utterances of God”.
While authority to operate in our gifts has been given to us, nowhere in scripture is authority given as a power to use over someone else. Jesus gave authority over the demons to his disciples, but the leaders of the church have not been given authority over people.
Matthew 10:1 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
It was the worldly people who took authority over others as their right.
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
But in the church, authority is only given as an authority to serve and authority to use our gifts. It is never given to be used to take control over another person in the church. The Christian way is service.
Matthew 20:26 “It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant,
Matthew 20:27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave;
Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
Since authority is to be used in the church for service and not for domination of one person over another, authority to use one’s gifts belongs equally to men and women in the body of Christ.
Continuing in our series on the gifts and their use by men and women in the body of Christ, we come to an unusual passage where the gift seems not to be a thing but a person.
In Ephesians 4:7, 8 we see that grace is given to each one of us apportioned out by Christ himself:
Ephesians 4:7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.”
The Greek word for “men” is a generic term meaning mankind and applies to both men and women. Both men and women (each one of us) is given grace according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Continuing on with verse 11 we find that the gifts that Christ gives in this passage are gifts of people for the equipping of the church.
Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Now take a look at the first gift which is that of apostle. Some consider this not to be a gift but an office. In fact this is the way that the first apostles may have looked at it because they set out to appoint a replacement for Judas.
Acts 1:20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, ‘LET HIS HOMESTEAD BE MADE DESOLATE, AND LET NO ONE DWELL IN IT’; and, ‘LET ANOTHER MAN TAKE HIS OFFICE.’
Acts 1:21 “Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us–
Acts 1:22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us–one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
Acts 1:23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
Acts 1:24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
Acts 1:25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
Acts 1:26 And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.
The apostles appointed two men as candidates for a replacement of Judas, then after praying to God to show his choice, they cast a dice and chose Matthias. But can men actually appoint an apostle this way if an apostle is a gift? No ordination by men can make a man an apostle if it is a gift given by Jesus to the church. And similarly no failure of men to ordain a person will take away God’s choice of the gift of apostle to the church.
Paul was given as an apostle to the church but he struggled with being accepted because the other apostles did not ordain him as the twelfth apostle. Paul continually had to defend his being an apostle because many had made their minds up already that the position was already filled. In 2 Corinthians 12 Paul responds that the Corinthians have pushed him to defend his apostleship and he is not happy to have to do this. Paul says:
2 Corinthians 12:11 I have become foolish; you yourselves compelled me. Actually I should have been commended by you, for in no respect was I inferior to the most eminent apostles, even though I am a nobody.
2 Corinthians 12:12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.
Paul tells the Galatians that he is not an apostle because of any man’s choice:
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)
Paul boldly states that he is an apostle of Jesus by the will of God:
2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God…
So could Paul then be the 13th apostle after the 12th apostle was appointed by the disciples? Scripture gives an interesting answer:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
There are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, not thirteen! So what do we make of Matthias? He is never spoken of again in scripture after Acts chapter 1. Paul himself claims over and over again to be an apostle of Jesus Christ, chosen by the will of God.
What does this mean? It means that an apostle is a true gift of God and an apostle cannot be appointed by man. Some wonder why Matthias was chosen by the casting of lots. Nowhere in scripture is this way of assessing God’s will ever practiced again. Was it necessary to cast lots because God never answered the eleven apostles regarding their own choice for the replacement of Judas? Is it because a gift cannot be appointed by man since it is God’s prerogative alone? Paul claimed to be an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God yet he was never appointed by man to this “position”. Rather he was gifted by Jesus and given to the church for the building up of the body of Christ. Paul was such an awesome choice that the church would not be the same without his writings. And Matthias? We never hear of him again.
What about another “gift” in the list at Ephesians 4:11 – the gift of pastor? Can a pastor be appointed by man? If a pastor is truly a gift as Ephesians 4:11 states, then a pastor is not a pastor because they are appointed by man. Similarly a pastor is not any less of a pastor because they are not appointed by man. This gift is given for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, for the building up of the body of Christ and it is not an appointment but a gift.
What does this all mean? I believe that it means that if you are called and gifted to be a pastor you do not need to have man’s ordination to flow in your gifts as a pastor. You are a pastor by God’s calling and gifting and not by the will of man. And if a person is a pastor that isn’t called or gifted to be a pastor they are not a true pastor just because man has ordained them. Paul said that there were false apostles who disguised themselves as true apostles:
2 Corinthians 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
Would it be any wonder if we would also have false pastors too? Jesus calls these people hirelings or hired hands:
John 10:12 “He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
John 10:13 “He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep.”
So if you are a woman and God has called you and gifted you as a pastor, do you really need any man to make you a pastor? Should you not just pastor the sheep? Be it a small group setting or a big group or a congregation, shouldn’t you just do what God has called you to do? If you are in a church that refuses to allow a woman to take the name of pastor and you want to stay in that church, do you think that God will allow you to do the work of a pastor without the name? A pastor is a gift to the body of Christ by the will of Jesus. Just be that gift and use your gift to nurture and tend the flock.
I got an email from Matt Slick today. In addition to saying that I misrepresented him (he said I was claiming that he believes I am unsaved! I know he calls me a heretic, but I didn’t hear him say that I was an unsaved heretic) 🙂
Matt stated:
you ARE in error…and your helping the church adopt your error.
and…i have no intention of having you back on the radio.
He also offered to debate me on Paltalk which I would consider if I knew if there was a fair way to have such a debate without Matt turning the debate into an attack session or having him control the mike. At this point I don’t think it would be possible, but I am open if I could figure out what I am doing.
The reason for this post is to call attention to a very gracious response to Matt that I found a link to on Wade Burleson’s blog. It is from a fellow Christian who has a blog called Voyage Blog and his name is David McLaughlin. Today he wrote a post called Carm Watch Update. David’s original post on the second debate between Matt and myself is here. I want to call attention to this blog and these two posts because of David’s gracious response. Even while pointing out error and wrong attitudes, David manages to keep a gracious attitude and I think he should be commended for the spirit that he showed. I also greatly appreciate him defending his sister in Christ!
Proverbs 18:17 (ESV) The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Scripture warns us not to make a hasty judgment on a matter. When two sides have conflicting interpretations, those who wish to be Bereans should be willing to carefully consider all of the facts from both sides of the issue first in order to avoid making a hasty judgment. This week the opportunity of hearing complete evidence, weighing the evidence and then judging between the two interpretations was stopped as I was barred from giving out my full view of 1 Timothy 2 on Matt Slick’s Faith and Reason show. Since brother Matt refused to allow me to give my conclusions as to what my full belief is and why I hold my view from scripture alone, and since Matt has subsequently banned me from coming back on his radio program, in all fairness to his listeners and to others who are interested in what I have to say, this post will present “the rest of the story”.
First if you haven’t heard the audio debate where Matt said that I was not polite and he also accused me of being a heretic, you will probably want to listen first by clicking here.
While Matt claims that 1 Timothy 2:12 is absolutely clear in its meaning, there are several very serious problems if we take the verses in this passage out of their context. Unless one can understand the whole teaching unit, it is dangerous to try to extract some part of it. For example if one takes 1 Timothy 2:15 in isolation, one might reason that a woman is saved by having children and this would question the salvation of unmarried, childless women. Verse 12 could be reasonably interpreted to restrict a woman from teaching any thing to any man. A woman couldn’t even give a man directions on how to find an address for fear that she would be teaching him something. …
Matt Slick and I had an interesting discussion on whether Paul was stopping true biblical teaching in 1 Timothy 2:12 or whether Paul was stopping error. My answer concerning the imperative command to let a woman learn (1 Timothy 2:11) and the fact that all teaching by “a woman” was to be stopped until she was properly taught was not picked up by Matt as he kept on asking me the same question over and over again. I am not quite sure why he cannot hear the answer to his questions. Maybe he was looking for a different answer and I didn’t give the one he wanted?
Unfortunately Matt did not let me finish discussing the passage with the crucial verse of 1 Timothy 2:15. I asked to come back on and I am willing to discuss the implication of Adam’s first creation where the Holy Spirit links the prohibition with Adam not being deceived as the first one created and the second one created was deceived, however Matt wouldn’t commit to another “discussion”. I really looked forward to hearing what Matt had to say about verse 15. No one yet has been able to answer my exegesis concerning the “she” and “they” from 1 Timothy 2:15 where Paul again moves from singular to plural. I can only assume that Matt still does not have the answer since he has not answered me for a year and a half since he first got my DVD set “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?”
On Wednesday September 26, 2007 I will be having round number 2 with Matt Slick on the issue of women in ministry. We will be dealing with 1 Timothy 2 and the issues of whether “a woman” is a specific woman in Ephesus or whether Paul is prohibiting all Christian women from teaching men (or some variation of this). We will be also dealing with Paul’s reference to creation in this passage and what creation has to do with the prohibition. It should be another hot debate and if you can catch it live, it will be on 790 KSPD in Boise, Idaho or catch the debate streamed live on myfamilyradio.com.
To listen to the program live on myfamilyradio.com go to http://www.myfamilyradio.com/player.html and pick the link at the very bottom for “790 KSPD play outside of browser” The time is 5 – 6 pm Pacific time, 6 – 7 pm Mountain time, 7 – 8 pm Central time, and 8 – 9 pm Eastern time.
The day after the debate the audio should be up at Matt’s podcast site here and I will also be linking to the audio file on this blog.
You might want to let him know that you appreciate the coverage if you are interested in this debate.
And if anyone is interested in calling in to give Matt feedback on his radio show, his radio call-in number is 208-377-3790. The show is on Monday to Friday from 5 – 6 pm Pacific time, 6 – 7 pm Mountain time, 7 – 8 pm Central time, and 8 – 9 pm Eastern time.
Matt also takes emails during the show times that he often reads on air if there are no callers. The day after the debate is a good time to let Matt know your thoughts on the debate. His email address is carmradio@gmail.com
This is an important debate and if you know of someone who might be interested in listening to two Christian apologists who both love Jesus but have differing views on women teaching the bible in an authoritative way, please send them a link to this blog post so they can tune in and be challenged to test everything by God’s word.
Also Matt wants to pick up the pace a little on the debate so could you please pray that as I go through my points a little faster, that Matt will actually let me finish my sentences this time?
Oh, my, we may need to tie his boxing gloves together a bit to give me a fair shake. At any rate, I trust it will be a respectful continuation of the debate as we seek to challenge each other’s presuppositions. May the Lord Jesus be glorified as we go into round #2!
If you didn’t get a chance to hear the debate regarding women Pastors between Matt Slick of CARM and myself, you can hear it at this link.
The next debate is scheduled for Wednesday, September 26th. The topic on that debate will be how do we know that the woman of 1 Timothy 2:12 is a specific woman in the Ephesus congregation and why is the reason for stopping her tied into the creation of Adam and Eve? It should be another hot debate.
As far as Matt’s treatment of me tonight – I did not take any offense by his words. I believe that he is deceived in this issue and so I am willing to cut him a lot of slack because of this. I consider it a privilege to be able to say even one thing that will help women to be set free in Christ to celebrate their gifts and use them for God’s glory by benefiting both men and women in the body of Christ.
Any thoughts on this debate? I am going to copy teknomom’s summary of this debate that she posted previous to my putting up this post.
(Additional note May 2009: Even though I tried my hardest to treat him with respect during the two radio appearances I had with him, he has publicly denounced me as the one who was attacking him. Since that time he started many posts on his discussion board attacking my person and calling me a heretic and he allowed his vice-president Diane Sellner to call me names and to even question my sanity and all this because I accepted an invitation to talk about women in ministry. I tried my best to get resolution to the misrepresentation and the name calling and my report on the Matthew 18 meeting I had with Matt Slick in August 2008 is found here.)
Thanks to Don Veinot, I was introduced to “Thatmom” and her podcasts. Thatmom has started a series on examining the teachings of patriarchy and patriocentricity within the homeschooling community. Her talk is quite interesting especially regarding her points about “name-calling” where the patriarchs label people who do not agree with them.
Thatmom’s Introduction to Patriarchy is a good introduction to the issue of marriage and how it concerns women in ministry which we will be dealing with once I have finished the posts on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Thatmom’s audio on patriarchy starts with the September 7th, 2007 edition.
In Ephesians chapter four Paul gives us a glimpse of what the gifts of the Holy Spirit are meant for. Paul starts out with humility, tolerance and love:
Eph 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,
Eph 4:3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Paul then goes on to emphasize oneness:
Eph 4:4 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
And from oneness to the spiritual gifts:
Eph 4:7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.”
The reason for the spiritual gifts, Paul says, are for building each other up until we all attain to unity:
Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
So if the equipping of all of the saints is the result of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the goal then is unity, let’s think about how this impacts us and what value there is in the gifts of women:
1. If the gifts of the spirit bring unity, then why are women’s gifts not being used for the benefit of the entire body of Christ?
2. How do we attain to the unity of the faith without all of us working together for the benefit of the entire body?
3. Do we have one side of the body of Christ being built up and edified and the other side missing some of the nourishment that is provided for the body? When we hold back women’s gifts from the benefit of men, are we not guilty of keeping the men malnourished by holding back some of their nourishment?
If we say that women have nothing that a man needs, then are we not guilty of saying that women’s gifts are not necessary for anyone? If men can get all they need from men alone, then women too can get all they need from men alone. Women’s gifts then with this reasoning, are not really needed because women’s gifts provide nothing that is not already provided by men. But that is simply not the case. The Holy Spirit has given each one gifts that are unique and are necessary for the nourishment of the body. When all of us are set free to operate in the gifts that the Holy Spirit has given us, then we will all attain to the unity of the faith. The mature body of Christ needs complete nourishment and women’s gifts are required for the edification and the building up of the entire body of Christ.
Regarding my previous post about debating with Matt Slick about women in ministry, I spoke to the producer of his radio program (Faith and Reason) tonight and she has set the date of Wednesday, September 19th for me to call in for the debate.
You can listen to the program live on myfamilyradio.com Go to http://www.myfamilyradio.com/player.html and pick the link at the very bottom for “790 KSPD play outside of browser” The time is 6 – 7 pm Mountain time so that would work out to 7 – 8 pm Central, 8 – 9 pm Eastern and 5 – 6 pm Pacific.
Matt is pretty hard on women and it is time to present the other side in a logical, respectful and winsome way. I trust that the Lord Jesus will help me with all of that. Remember David and Goliath? Guess which one I am?? I will give you a hint…I hope to get out alive!
While some people consider a “Pastor” to be an office, scripture lists “Pastor” as a spiritual gift in Ephesians 4:8-11.
Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.”
Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
The Greek word for Pastor is poimen and it means Shepherd.
In November 2006 at the Evangelical Theological Society meetings, Dr. Harold Hoehner presented a paper that asked the question, “Can a Woman Be a Pastor-Teacher?” Dr. Hoehner argued that Ephesians 4:11 indicates that “pastor-teacher” is a spiritual gift and not an office in the church. This position is consistent with his commentary on the book of Ephesians where he writes:
Some may question the validity of women pastors or pastor-teachers, but it must be remembered that these are gifts and not offices. Surely, women who pastor-shepherd among women should cause no problem at all (Titus 2:3–4). But in fact, Priscilla, along with Aquila, taught Apollos the way of God more accurately (Acts 18:25–26) which would indicate that a woman may not be limited to teaching only women” (Ephesians, 546).
Dr. Hoehner is one of the ESV translation review scholars and is not considered to be an egalitarian so his admission that God can gift women as Pastors for the benefit of the entire body of Christ caused quite a stir in the complementarian camp. Here is a summary of Dr. Hoehner’s position (http://assembling.blogspot.com/2006_11_01_archive.html)
1. Many misunderstandings about women in ministry are caused by a blurring of the distinctions between spiritual gifts and offices.
2. Scripture gives qualifications for offices. Qualifications are given for apostles, elder/ bishops, and deacons/deaconesses.
3. Scripture does not give qualifications for gifts. Gifts are given according to the will of God through the Holy Spirit.
4. Since there are no qualifications given for the list in Ephesians 4:11 (apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastor-teachers), pastor-teachers are individuals endowed with spiritual gifts, not offices.
5. Therefore, even if women cannot hold a certain office, they can be pastor-teachers if they are so gifted.
It is to be noted that spiritual gifts are given by the Holy Spirit, through believers, for the benefit of others, therefore a Pastor is given as a spiritual gift by the working of the Holy Spirit and it is a gift for the benefit of all:
1 Cor. 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
If this view is correct, then we should not emphasize that a person is “exercising” a certain spiritual gift. The person does not control whether or not, or how, the Spirit decides to work through them. Instead, as Peter says, the person should speak and/or act according to the will of God, and allow the Spirit to use those words/actions as He chooses.
I do recognize that there are people within Scripture that are called “teachers,” “prophets,” “servants,” etc. However, in my view, this is the recognition of others that these are the primary ways that the Spirit works through those individuals. Thus, for one known as a “teacher,” the Spirit normally uses that person’s words to teach others; therefore, other people recognize this and refer to him/her as a “teacher.”
If we do a word search on the Greek word for Pastor, we find the term used 17 times in the NASB, with 16 of these times translated as Shepherd and once translated as Pastor.
In closing, I quote again from Alan Knox who says:
I should speak as the Spirit leads me, even if no one “learns” from my words. I am not responsible for how others receive my words or actions; however, I am responsible for obeying God in everything that I do and say.
Amen! We are responsible for obeying God in everything that we do and say and if God gifts us as a Pastor, we are responsible for using that gift for the glory of God.
Did you ever feel pulled in a direction you really didn’t want to go in? Well, this has been my life for the last 3 1/2 years. If anyone wanted to talk about the issue of women in ministry, women Pastors or anything similar, I just wouldn’t go there. I just wanted to talk about Jesus and I wanted to stay away from controversial issues. Looking back on my attitude I think I was just being selfish because I didn’t want to touch a subject that didn’t affect me. After all I wasn’t a Pastor and if there were no women Pastors in the entire body of Christ, it really didn’t matter to me. I am an apologist called by God to witness to those caught in the cults and to teach correct biblical doctrine to those who had been deceived into believing that they had the right Jesus, the right gospel and the right spirit when all they had was a spiritual counterfeit. I had my eyes on the right goal, but I closed my eyes to the plight of multiple women in the body of Christ who were being stopped from ministering in their own God-given gifts. It wasn’t until I was treated badly for being a woman in ministry that I embarked on my own study of scripture to find out God’s will in the matter of women’s gifts in the body of Christ. I was open to being corrected and I came to scripture believing that if I was wrong to teach the gospel or correct people’s doctrine, then I would submit to whatever God’s will was for women.
That led me to the most amazing journey through scripture delving into the hard passages of scripture and after scripting my findings into a DVD series called “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” I can honestly say that I have a tremendous respect for the Apostle Paul and the full inspiration of scripture that frees women to serve God in whatever way that He calls them.
I praise God that my journey has brought freedom to many men and women in Christ. The first Pastor that contacted me after viewing the series said that the DVDs were instrumental in correcting his faulty tradition on the subject of women in ministry. All the praise goes to God for his faithfulness! Yet through the wonderful things that I was learning from each inspired word and each inspired piece of grammar in the hard passages of scripture, I lost two people whom I considered to be good friends. Just because I pointed out the scriptural basis for women to have freedom to minister for the common good, I was treated with anger, disrespect and ultimately shunned as a person sinning against God. God allowed this for his glory because what my friends intended as a rejection, and as a punishment for my beliefs, God saw fit to train me through suffering to understand what other women have experienced because they too chose to be obedient to God rather than to man-made tradition.
So here I am once again finding myself compelled to speak out even though my shy nature doesn’t want to experience the anger and rejection again. I have been listening to Matt Slick’s radio program called “Faith and Reason” and although there are many things that I do not agree with Matt on, I applaud his determination to reach out to the cults and to atheists with the good news of Jesus Christ. (Matt Slick’s radio program is at 790 AM,Boise, Idaho streamed at www.myfamilyradio.com 6 – 7 pm Mountain time Monday through Friday, phone number 208-377-3790.) In fact, I used Matt’s web site (www.carm.org) to get information on Universalism several years ago when I was dealing with a former Pastor who had become a Universalist and had infiltrated a Calvary Chapel Church where my former friends attended. The information that I got from Matt’s site was very helpful in dealing with the subject of Universalism and the end result was that my friends did not get pulled into this deception and the Universalist/former Christian Pastor was asked to leave the church so that he could no longer influence the people in the congregation. It was really amazing to me that I could put in a major amount of effort to help keep my friends safe from deception and then years later this same couple would turn on me and reject me merely because of the secondary issue of women in ministry. That is truly sad.
So, back to Matt. I have been listening to Matt’s podcastsand it has grieved me that he is counseling women to stop following after God’s calling on their lives regarding pastoral ministry. I felt that it was time that women and men who listen to his broadcasts realize that there is another side of this issue that they weren’t being told and I wrote to Matt asking for time to speak about the issue of women’s ability to teach the bible for the common good of men and women so that I could share the opposing viewpoint with his audience. Matt has had my DVD set for about a year and although I have asked him several times to point out what he considers to be my “errors” and to explain where my exegesis is wrong, he has chosen not to answer. While it would be more comfortable for me to just leave him alone and just to consider him a rather rude brother in Christ, I have a great concern about those whom he is influencing. So bottom line, I think this is the week when I will call into Matt’s program (probably Sept 10, 11 or 12, 2007) and say some words to defend our sisters in Christ whom God has called into ministry.
My concerns are that Matt is extremely passionate against women in ministry so that he comes across as rude and crude. He called me a feminist, a liberal and someone not interested in the truth of scripture. For those of you who have been reading my posts for some time now, you should have picked up by now that I am a big stickler for biblical inerrancy and for the full inspiration of scripture including inspired words and inspired grammar. Matt apparently cannot fathom anyone with this kind of respect for scripture who would believe differently than he does.
Listen to Matt’s comments hereregarding women in ministry and my email to him. It is about 4 minutes long and is the section where he chides me for not believing in scripture. I am awed at how he could say the things he said after having read my emails and after having viewed my DVD set. It totally blows me away.
What Matt didn’t read from my emails was this:
Why do you treat cultists with respect and Christian sisters with such disrespect as if they were terrible sinners against God?
Before one can even discussion the issue of Pastors, one must be able to discuss the gifts of women in the church and whether God has given them freedom to teach and use their gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ.
I am gentle and respectful. Will you try to be respectful too since you are my brother in Christ? If so, then let’s talk. Set a time for after the 8th of September and I will let a bunch of Pastors through the US know about the show and let’s have a go at showing the cultists and atheists how godly Christians can talk about an issue that doesn’t affect one’s salvation.
The only answer I got from Matt was his comments on his radio program. He read this part of my email:
I am not a woman’s libber. I do not burn bras or rake men over the coals for all the atrocities that they have done to women through the years.
Apparently what I said that I do not do was cause for him to continue to say that I sounded like a woman’s libber. This is the kind of misrepresentation that creates an atmosphere of contention. Yet I still believe that what I can say in a loving and kind way will touch someone’s heart.
Please pray for me as I consider how and what I should say so that I can show God’s grace and God’s love to a brother in Christ who has not much respect for women whom God has called to minister without prejudice to the entire body of Christ.
While I am working on my next post about the spiritual gifts and the place of the Pastor, I would like to link to one more blog post this time by Pastor Paul Burleson. Lin brought attention to this wonderful article about the importance of God’s message over the messenger, called “The foolishness of Preaching“. I think there is really good wisdom here regarding the hard passages of scripture on the women’s issue.
Why are so many quick to condemn women Pastors or women bible teachers and not follow through with the same check list that they have created? Do they also see gifted male Pastors as being in sin if these male Pastors are not married? Do you also see godly men as sinning against God if they become Pastors before they have had children? If one is to be consistent in charging sin against a woman Pastor, then one must also charge unmarried or married but with no children, male Pastors. The link above is a good read and sparks some good food for thought especially in reading those who condemn women as sinning against God merely because they are teaching and preaching to the full body of Christ.
Segregation is the policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups. The question for this post – are God’s gifts meant to be segregated into races, classes or ethnic groups?
Let’s look at some biblical examples to help us answer this question. Concerning Paul, Acts 9:15 says:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
So was Paul’s ministry and gifts only meant for the Gentiles, kings and Jewish men? We see that in the world, Paul started with the Jews, but because of a command given to him by God, he turned to the Gentiles after the Jews rejected his message. Acts 13 says:
Acts 13:45-47 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.'”
Here we can clearly see that someone may be given a gift to evangelize a particular group of people for Christ. In fact my own ministry started with a ministry to Jehovah’s Witnesses. For sixteen years I ministered to Jehovah’s Witnesses and ex-JW’s by operating a support group for those who had left the Watchtower. This is a very specialized area of ministry and God gave me compassion for reaching this largely unreached group of people who after leaving the cult group found themselves too fearful to enter a Christian church. Unless a Christian helps them with sorting out their doctrine, they can be very difficult to reach even after leaving the Watchtower.
So we can understand that people are gifted for ministry to certain ethnic or cultural groups to reach the lost, however in the church with the members of Christ’s body are people given spiritual gifts exclusively for the benefit of a race, class or ethnic group? Let’s look further into scripture to see if God’s gifts are given for the exclusive use of one type of people. Let’s pay attention especially to see if God’s gifts are to be given for the exclusive use of either men or women.
The church started with all the Christians at one place at one time.
Acts 1:13 When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
When God gave gifts to the body of Christ, did he separate the men and women? No he didn’t. We find the believers, men and women all together.
Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Here are the disciples male and female in one place at one time. The Holy Spirit came upon them all and all began to speak with other languages. No sign that there is to be a segregation of the gifts of the Spirit.
Then Paul’s teaching on the gifts of the Spirits starts with this astounding word:
1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
Each one has the individual gift or gifts that the Holy Spirit gives them for the purpose of the common good. Paul sums up the teaching of the commonality of the gifts by saying:
1 Corinthians 12:25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
There is to be no division in the body or segregation in the body. The word “division” means to split or tear. A schism, division, tear, as in mind or sentiment, and so into factions.
The early church did not have women’s ministries where women were segregated away from the men in order to have a place for women to teach. Instead, Paul teaches that when the entire church gathers together, this is the proper place for God’s gifts to be used. The gifts are for the common good. Paul teaches further about body ministry starting with 1 Corinthians 14:23 regarding the whole church assembling together. He then goes on to say:
1 Cor. 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
1 Cor. 14:26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1 Cor. 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;
The emphasis is on full body ministry. The gifts of the Spirit are given for the common good. They are not given to be segregated and kept away from anyone.
What does this all mean? It means that men have been kept away from women’s gifts in opposition to what the bible teaches. The bible never once says that a woman who is gifted in teaching the bible should keep her spiritual gift for the use of women alone. You can look high and low in scripture but you won’t find women teaching the bible to other women. You will find women teaching other women to love their husbands and women teaching women to keep the house but you will never find an example of a woman teaching the bible to another women.
Do I think that this means that women shouldn’t teach the bible to other women? No. I think though that scripture has not given us one example of a woman teaching the bible to another woman because then this could be used as a restricting factor regarding what God wants for the use of his entire body. God wants full body ministry. The entire church worshiped together and the entire church ministered together. When we keep men away from women when God has gifted godly Christian women with his Holy Spirit’s gifts, we are acting like we don’t need one another and that segregation of the sexes is a better idea than oneness. But how do we reconcile this with what God said through Paul:
1 Corinthians 12:21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
After reading all the “you all” verses from 1 Corinthians 14, I wonder if Paul would have looked at the way we have kept women teachers away from the benefit of the men and I can imagine him just shaking his head in disbelief. Would he have said to us:
The hand cannot say to the eye, “You have no need of my teaching” or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of your teaching.”
The key to Christian unity is an attitude of “you can all…” kind of full body ministry. Allowing full body ministry to only one sex is not God’s best. For sixteen years I discipled men and women alike in the Christian faith. I never once turned away one man that wanted to learn. Is God saying that I sinned because I refused to turn men away? Or is God saying to us through Paul that full body ministry is God’s gift and desire for all of us?
Well, I am off for a weekend of rest at the lake. In the meantime you may want to check out a couple of interesting links.
The first link is from Chuck on The Christian and authority. Good thoughts that have some obvious ramifications regarding the women’s issue.
The other is a blog post by Ben Witherington where I have been fighting for the inspiration of scripture and scripture to be taken as it was written. I have posted my reasoning regarding why Isaiah 7:14 is a prophesy regarding Jesus alone and not a prophesy fulfilled in the days of Ahaz. For those of you who are passionate about the inspiration of scripture as I am (I hold to inspired words and inspired grammar) you will find the comments interesting here.
Keep the comments coming and I’ll save my responses for when I get back.
In my blog entry called “Are women’s gifts secondary?” I documented the complementarian teaching that women’s gifts are secondary to men’s gifts and that women to use their gifts outside the church.
The question for this post is, are women’s gifts really meant to be used outside the church or are they to be used for the purpose of growth for the body of Christ?
To answer this question our most important resource will be the bible. Although there are several women mentioned who are co-workers with Paul, complementarians who refuse to allow women to minister in the church will tend to disregard these women co-workers because they say there is no documented evidence of their public ministry. So let’s look outside the box for a minute and look at the documented public ministry of a woman few people have reason to consider. The reason we will study this woman is not just for what is said about her, but also what is not said. In Revelation 2:20 we read:
But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Revelation 2:20 was written to the church in Thyatira. In this church is a particular woman named Jezebel is leading and teaching those whom Jesus calls “My bond-servants”. These men are committing adultery with her in seem by verse 22. …
While I am working on the next post regarding spiritual gifts, have a look at a bulletin board where the majority of people are hierarchists. I have posted a topic on the need for two or three witnesses to establish a matter. There can be quite lively discussion so if you want to know how complementarians think, give the thread that I started on Worthy Boards a read http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=67810&st=0. If you are brave you can join in. I’ll warn you though that this board is known to hack apart a loving egalitarian and sometimes the posts get shut down because there is at times more heat than light. With that in mind, if you want to read, come on in. If you want to join in, try to keep the light of Christ shining brightly so that those who are our brothers and sisters in Christ will see Christ within us. Remember that some day these same folks may be fighting on our side. Lastly remember that Satan is the true enemy of the body of Christ, not our brothers and sisters who do not agree with us on women in ministry.
Last post we referenced 1 Corinthians 12:7 teaching us that the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good of the body of Christ. But are women’s gifts somehow secondary? According to leading complementarians women’s gifts of teaching are not equal to men’s teaching gifts at all.
John MacArthur tells us that the woman gets her knowledge from the man. Listen to clip #1 here.
So according to John MacArthur the man gets his spiritual gifts directly from God.
However the woman is different in that she gets her direction and her significance through the direction of the man. Listen to clip #2 here.
John MacArthur says that the woman is not the glory of God. Instead she is only the glory of the man and she then is under the man’s direction. In this way she manifests the man’s authority not God’s authority. Listen to clip #3.
This view makes it clear that men are needed in the church and they are the ones gifted by God to use their gifts for the common good of the body of Christ.
However this same view shows that women’s gifts are not given for the church. They are not for the common good. They are to be used outside the church.
Listen here to clip #4 as Pastor John MacArthur limits women’s prayers and women’s gifts to outside the church building.
So then are women allowed to use their spiritual gifts on the mission field? Well, no, they cannot use their gifts of teaching on the mission field either if there are unsaved men present according to leading complementarians. Listen to clip #5.
Last year CBMW was asked a question about women’s teaching of the bible. Can a woman give her insight on scriptures to a man? According to the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood she can teach a man privately but her teaching is subject to man’s original authorship. This means that if man has originated the teaching, then she can learn from the man and teach women and children and she can also teach a single man in private. However if her insight has not first originated from a man, then her insight is invalid. God apparently does not speak through a woman directly, but only through a man. John MacArthur concurs with this view and he shares that the greatest spiritual source for a woman will always be a man. Listen to clip #6 here.
So although one might think that complementarians give full freedom for women to minister to other women, it appears that even teaching other women, women teachers are second class citizens because a woman is only a secondary spiritual source for other women. A man is always the greatest spiritual source for a woman according to leading complementarians.
So what does this really mean?
It means that women really are not needed and their spiritual gifts are so secondary that they are not even the best spiritual mentors for women. This also explains why CBMW has completely ignored and has refused to refute the teaching in “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” The teaching in the DVD set has been considered by many to be a fresh understanding of the hard passages of scripture in their proper context. But since I have taken this understanding from scripture alone and not from another man’s writings, my exegesis is considered invalid by these men. My explanation of the phrase “because of the angels” in 1 Corinthians 11:10 as a reference back to 1 Corinthians 6:3 is considered by some as the most straightforward understanding of the passage, yet the fact that commentaries written by men take a more complex view of the phrase in their guessing what Paul could have meant and none before me have apparently seen such a simple explanation from the context already established by Paul, then my view is considered invalid. Huh?
Let’s think this through. If this is God’s view of women’s secondary gifts, then why did God place both men and women together in one place at Pentecost? Why were women not segregated away from the men when they were filled with the Holy Spirit? Why were both men and women speaking in tongues and both were inspired to speak forth the praises of God to all gathered around them? What do you think? I would love to hear your views and more of my thoughts in the next post.
Documentation:
Clip #1
The woman is the vice regent who rules in the stead or who carries out man’s wish, as man is the vice regent who carries out God’s wish. That’s why, you see, I Corinthians 14 says, “If a woman needs to know something, tell her to go–” Where? Ask whom? Her husband, because man is the sun, and woman is the moon. “She shines not so much with the direct light of God but that derived from man.”
She demonstrates her significance in the world in response to the direction of men who are given divine dominion. That’s a general truth. That’s a truth that goes beyond the walls of Christianity and the church. It’s just in general.
Man, then, according to verse 7, “is the image and glory of God,” but look at verse 7 again. Here comes the other part. “But the woman is–” not the glory of God but what? “The glory of man.” Not even a definite article there. “Woman is glory of man.” In other words–listen to this–in other words, the woman was made to manifest man’s authority and man’s will as man was made to manifest God’s authority.
If it says here a woman praying or prophesying, there’s one place where she won’t do it. Where’s that? In the church. There are other places where she will do it. She will pray in many different places, with other people, with other women, with her family, with close friends.
There are places where she will speak and proclaim the Gospel to unsaved friends and neighbors and to other women and whatever, but the one place where she will not preach, where she will not lead, is in the church.
And somebody else says, “Well, what about missions? What about missions? We need missionaries, what would we do without women missionaries?” God bless women missionaries, but I don’t think women being on the mission field necessarily have the right to violate the Word of God.
Today I am starting a new set of posts on the spiritual gifts which are given to each person in the body of Christ. I would like to start with 1 Corinthians 12:7. Here Paul gives us the reason for the gifts that have been given to the body of Christ. Why did God give us spiritual gifts anyways? Paul said:
1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
The gifts, Paul says, are for the “common good”. The New King James says it this way:
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all.
So our gifts in the body of Christ are given for the benefit of the entire body because they are “for the profit of all”. When the Holy Spirit was first poured out on the believers they were united together as a group.
Acts 2:1 … they were all together in one place.
In unity they received gifts from God.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Notice that the emphasis is on unity and each one’s participation. All received and all spoke forth God’s praise. These disciples were men and women receiving and participating together. Acts 1:13 names the men who were gathered together and with them were the women :
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
It wasn’t just the men who spoke God’s words and were given God’s gift for the profit of all. It was the women too who were filled and who spoke. If we are to believe God’s word then we must also accept that women’s gifts are for the common good. We must also believe that women’s gifts are for the profit of all.
But those who promote the hierarchical understanding of scripture would have us believe that women are not allowed to teach the men in the body of Christ. With this understanding then we would have to see that women’s gifts are not at all for the common good. Instead of promoting unity and the profit of all, these men end up promoting segregation and the separation of God’s gifts in the body. Is this really scriptural? Should we be creating women’s services or a women’s church so that women can use their gifts? If we segregate our women away from the men because we believe men are not allowed to receive the benefit of women’s teaching, then are we not guilty of saying to one part of the body that we have no need of them? Are we not guilty of making some members of the body of Christ second class citizens because their gifts are not for the common good?
In the next post I will reveal some interaction with CBMW (the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood) that shows their mindset regarding the secondary nature of women’s teaching.
Hello all. I am leaving for a conference in Oregon and will be back in about a week. When I get back we will start a series on the gifts of the Holy Spirit and how these gifts affect the issue of women in ministry.
Today I would like to refer you to a post by Christians for Biblical Equality (CBE) called “Some things biblical feminists do not believe“. Although I do not like the term “feminists” or “feminism” because of the connection with secular feminism that complmenetarians try to read into the term “biblical feminism”, I do think that the list that CBE has come up is a worthwhile read. Do you think that most complementarians misunderstand the beliefs of those who believe in biblical equality?
Continuing on with our verse by verse discussion through the section of 1 Corinthians 11 about women, we come to verse 13:
1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
Paul is asking the Corinthians now to make a judgment call regarding the evidence that he has brought them. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? What evidence has Paul brought that should cause the Corinthians to say “yes”?
1. Paul says that the woman is the glory of the man. Glory is never to be hidden from view. When Moses went in to speak with God, his face shone forth with the glory of God. Exodus 34:35 shows that Moses did not hide the glory of God from the Israelites.
Exodus 34:35 …the sons of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone…
It wasn’t until the glory was fading away that Moses would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites could not see the fading of the glory.
2 Corinthians 3:13 …and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.
Jesus said that our light was not meant to be hidden:
Matthew 5:14-16 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see you good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”
We are meant to shine forth God’s glory and that glory is not to be hidden. Also Moses himself took off his veil when he was in the presence of God. Is this not a powerful argument that women who are also the glory of God should also be unveiled when they come before God in worship?
2. Paul said that the woman has authority over her head (1 Cor. 11:10). If she has the authority and the right to make a decision regarding her own head, then is it not also right for her to make the decision to uncover in worship as she comes before God?
3. If the man has the preeminence in the creation and the woman has the preeminence since the creation, wouldn’t their interdependent equality make them equal in worship before their maker? Why would must one be forcedto cover their glory while the other must uncover their glory? Shouldn’t the man and the woman both uncover their glory before God? Also if we interpret Paul’s writing to say that a woman must cover herself in coming before God, then how can we say that men and women are equal before God?
Paul has carefully crafted his argument concerning the issue of glory by showing that women too have glory. Glory is always to be uncovered. Where does God ever tell us to cover up the glory? He doesn’t.
Next Paul appeals to the fact that a woman has the right to made her own decision regarding her own head. Then Paul appeals to the equal premeninence of man and woman and their interdependent equality. Now we are at the point where Paul makes his appeal using one last argument from nature showing the equality of men and women regarding their hair. The NASB renders verses 14 & 15 this way:
1 Corinthians 11:14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
1 Corinthians 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
However the ISV renders these verses very differently and without the question mark:
1 Cor. 11:14, 15 (ISV) Nature itself teaches you neither that it is disgraceful for a man to have long hair nor that hair is a woman’s glory, for hair is given as a substitute for coverings.
In order to understand these verses properly we need to understand a couple of very important things about these verses. The first thing is that the Greek was written without punctuation. Whether these verses are a question or a statement has to be determined by the context. The punctuation that we have in our bibles are there because of the translator’s interpretation of what Paul is saying but not all agree that Paul is asking a question.
Let’s look at the context to see if Paul’s words should be taken as a question. Does nature teach us that men should have short hair and that women should have long hair? No, nature doesn’t teach us that at all. The hair on a boys head grow just as the hair on a girls head. Nature does not teach us that there is a difference. Does nature teach us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair? How could nature teach us that? In many cultures men have long hair and they are not ashamed. Nature does not teach them to be ashamed. Why not? Because a man’s hair is designed to keep growing unless it is cut off.
Now we can see that God has designed some hair to show that these hairs are different. Look at the hair on your arms. Does your arm hair keep growing until you cut it? No, it doesn’t. The reason is that God designed the hair on our arms to be different than the hair on our head. But there is nothing in nature that allows us to see a difference in God’s design for hair on the head of a little boy and the hair on the head of a little girl. Each of them has hair that keeps growing until the hair is cut. There is no difference in nature. In nature, the hair on boys and girls are equally growing and nothing in nature shows that there is shame involved regarding the length of their hair.
This brings us to the second thing that we need to know about this passage. We need to know that the glory of hair belongs to “himself or herself” not to just “women”.
1 Corinthians 11:15 (ISV)…nor that hair is a woman’s glory, for hair is given as a substitute for coverings.
Each one of us male and female has been given hair by God for a covering so hair is not a glory just for a woman. Neither male nor female is required to have any outside covering on their head when they come before God.
So are men to be ashamed to have long hair? How can that be? Orthodox male Jews let the sides of their hair grow long and they believe that the bible tells them to leave the corners of their hair long.
Jeremiah 49:32 “Their camels will become plunder, And their many cattle for booty, And I will scatter to all the winds those who cut the corners of their hair; And I will bring their disaster from every side,” declares the LORD.
Here is a picture of an orthodox Jew. The “corners” of his hair are left long and he is not ashamed of his long hair.
Does nature teach them that men are to be ashamed of their long hair? No, not at all. The only command that God had regarding the length of one’s hair was the nazirite vow (Numbers 6:2-18). Both male and female were required in this vow to grow their hair out and when the vow was over, both men and women were required to shave their hair off and offer it as a peace offering to God. Since God required equal rules about hair for both men and women, (both had to have long hair and later both had to shave their hair completely off) how could God then have inspired a passage to say that nature showed that it was a shame for a man to have long hair? Nature says nothing of the sort and God said nothing about long hair being a shame so the words of Paul must be taken as a statement and not a question otherwise we have a contradiction with scripture as well as an illogical argument.
God has designed through nature that the hair on both men and women will grow until it is cut. God has a requirement for both men and women to grow their hair long in the nazirite vow. There is nothing in God’s requirement that would even hint that nature teaches us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair or that it is a shame for a woman to cut her hair.
If we take verses 14 & 15 without the question mark as the International Standard Version does, then it makes sense with the “nature” argument. Paul is arguing for our equality once again. Both men and women are to come before God without a head covering because they both already have a natural head covering and nothing more is needed. Paul isn’t saying that only a woman has her hair as her glory. Hair has been given to both male and female and nothing more is needed when we come before God. Again here we have Paul’s argument as equality between men and women.
Paul then sums up his argument regarding our equality in Christ and our equality in head coverings and hair. Paul says in verse 16 in the International Standard Versions:
1 Corinthians 11:16 (ISV) But if anyone wants to argue about this, we do not have any custom like this, nor do any of God’s churches.
Paul says that if one is inclined to argue about the matter – the matter of head coverings and the length of one’s hair – that one final proof that the head covering is not needed is that none of the churches of God have a custom of head coverings or a requirement for the length of one’s hair.
The NASB adds the word “other” to the passage … (we do not have any “other” custom)…but the word “other” is not in the original inspired Greek. The inspired word is the Greek word toioutos which means “of this sort”. Paul is saying that we do not have this sort of custom (head coverings and rules about the length of one’s hair) and neither do any of God’s churches.
The glory of God belongs to men and women alike. Both are to shine forth the glory of God and women are also to shine forth the glory of man. The glory of hair belongs to men and women alike and God’s only command regarding the length of hair shows equality for men and women alike before God.
Is Paul using this passage to force women to hide their glory with a veil and to force women to leave their hair uncut? Not at all! In fact, his arguments are completely opposite to the human tradition that forces the segregation of men and women. His arguments are also opposite from those who say that only men have glory and women do not. This inspired passage is rather a tremendously powerful passage supporting men and women’s equality before God and their interdependence with each other. This is God’s way. God is not prejudiced preferring men over women or women over men. God wants us united together in the body of Christ giving each other equal respect as “sons” of God and fellow members of the body of Christ.
I received an excellent link to a post on the subject of Paul silencing women in 1 Corinthians 14 and I wanted to pass it on for all to see. It is called “Shut Her Bug” and is an excellent piece by James Patrick Holding. The link is here and I especially liked it because it is exactly what I could clearly see in the Corinthian passage that previously had seemed to completely silence women in the church. It looks like there are more and more people having their eyes opened to the “elusive law” as I call it from 1 Corinthians 14. Enjoy. Thanks to Pastor “D” for the link.
Every once in awhile I link to a blog that has material that I really like. Today I want to link to a blog by Pastor Paul Burleson which has some good things about women in ministry even though Pastor Paul is “going against the flow” in the Southern Baptist Convention.
The first link is to a humble admission of his own problems in marriage that came from an old view that he used to believe about women as second class citizens. He calls this one dealing with differences part 3.
The second link is a piece that he wrote concerning authority in the local church and women. Pastor Paul has my deepest respect for his humble attitude and his willingness to speak his mind even when he may be in the minority in his denomination.
I should be done the verse-by-verse discussion on 1 Corinthians 11 (the head covering & hair issue verses) this week and I was thinking that I would move on to a discussion of God giving teachers to the body of Christ – are teachers part of the gifts of the Spirit or “offices” that must be filled by men?
While I am still considering my next set of posts, I thought I would open a post up for you to give some input. What would you like to see discussed? What questions do you have that could work into a post of their own? What would you like to see me teach on?
God’s richest blessing to all, and thanks for popping in on my “Women in Ministry” blog!
Oh, my, we may need to tie his boxing gloves together a bit to give me a fair shake. At any rate, I trust it will be a respectful continuation of the debate as we seek to challenge each other’s presuppositions. May the Lord Jesus be glorified as we go into round #2!
John MacArthur says that the woman is not the glory of God. Instead she is only the glory of the man and she then is under the man’s direction. In this way she manifests the man’s authority not God’s authority. 
Here is a picture of an orthodox Jew. The “corners” of his hair are left long and he is not ashamed of his long hair.