{"id":800,"date":"2009-01-22T14:04:30","date_gmt":"2009-01-22T22:04:30","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/?p=800"},"modified":"2015-03-17T19:20:08","modified_gmt":"2015-03-18T02:20:08","slug":"did-the-serpent-have-more-knowledge-than-man","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/01\/22\/did-the-serpent-have-more-knowledge-than-man\/","title":{"rendered":"Did the serpent have more knowledge than man?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img data-attachment-id=\"819\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/01\/22\/did-the-serpent-have-more-knowledge-than-man\/serpent2\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/serpent2.jpg?fit=163%2C263&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"163,263\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"serpent2 on Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/serpent2.jpg?fit=163%2C263&amp;ssl=1\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/serpent2.jpg?fit=163%2C263&amp;ssl=1\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-819\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/serpent2.jpg?resize=163%2C263\" alt=\"serpent2 on Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz\" width=\"163\" height=\"263\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/p>\n<p>The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood has published a book called <em>Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood<\/em> and on page 73, John Piper and Wayne Grudem write that Adam was ordained as the one responsible for the life of the garden.\u00a0 The reference is in response to a quote from 1 Timothy 2:14 where Adam is said to have not been deceived. Some take this as a proof that women are more gullible than men and easier to deceive, but Grudem and Piper say that this is not so.\u00a0 Instead, CBMW brings a new meaning to &#8220;not deceived&#8221;.\u00a0 They say &#8220;not deceived&#8221; means that Adam was not approached by the deceiver.\u00a0 They write:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>If this is the proper understanding, then what Paul meant in 1 Timothy 2:14 was this:\u00a0 &#8220;Adam was not deceived (that is, Adam was not approached by the deceiver and did not carry on direct dealings with the deceiver), but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor (that is, she was the one who took up dealings with the deceiver and was led through her direct interaction with him into deception and transgression).&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Since when does &#8220;not deceived&#8221; mean that you must have a direct interaction with the deceiver?\u00a0 <!--more-->There are many false teachers on &#8220;Christian&#8221; television today, but can we honestly say that since these false teachers are not directly speaking to an individual listener that this means the one who falls hook. line and sinker into their deception is &#8220;not deceived&#8221; when they believe everything the false teacher says?\u00a0 That wouldn&#8217;t make any sense at all.\u00a0 Someone can be just as deceived by merely listening the same as the one who is directly targeted.\u00a0 When scripture says that Adam was &#8220;not deceived&#8221; it means just that.\u00a0 Adam was <strong>not deceived<\/strong> by the lies spoken by the serpent even though he was with Eve while she was being influenced to believe the lie.<\/p>\n<p>One wonders what is the reason for redefining what &#8220;not deceived&#8221; actually means?\u00a0 The reason becomes quite clear as one connects together John Piper&#8217;s and Wayne Grudem&#8217;s assertions about satan&#8217;s knowledge concerning an unrevealed &#8220;order&#8221; of importance that makes only the male God&#8217;s official spokesman and defender thus causing Piper and Grudem to see more in the account of the fall than is revealed in the pages of the bible.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8230;the point is that when God&#8217;s order of leadership is repudiated it brings damage and ruin.\u00a0 Men and women are both more vulnerable to error and sin when they forsake the order that God has intended.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>What is &#8220;God&#8217;s order of leadership&#8221; and how is it &#8220;repudiated&#8221;?\u00a0 Apparently satan had a <em>hidden<\/em> knowledge that caused him to <em>know<\/em> that Adam was to be approached as he was ordained to be the representative of humanity and ordained as the defender of God.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Satan&#8217;s subtlety is that he knew the created order God had ordained for the good of the family, and he deliberately defied it by ignoring the man and taking up his dealings with the woman.\u00a0 Satan put her in the position of spokesman, leader and defender.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Let&#8217;s stop here a minute and ask some questions:<\/p>\n<p>1.\u00a0 How do we know that satan knew there was a &#8220;created order&#8221; that God had ordained?\u00a0 God didn&#8217;t make Adam the president-ruler and Eve the vice-president ruler of the earth.\u00a0 God told them both to rule the earth and subdue it and there is no biblical evidence of an &#8220;order&#8221; of their rule.\u00a0 How could satan have known more than God revealed to Adam and his wife?\u00a0 How come satan knows more about God&#8217;s purpose for man than God revealed in the scriptures?<\/p>\n<p>2.\u00a0 How could satan know about a &#8220;created order&#8221; for the family when God never made Adam a ruler over Eve?\u00a0 God did tell Adam that he was to be a watchman over the garden before Eve was created, but he didn&#8217;t tell Adam that he was to rule over his wife nor did God tell Adam he was to be her spokesman.\u00a0 Did God give more information to satan about Adam&#8217;s rulership than he gave to man?\u00a0 Also how could Adam&#8217;s command to guard the garden be taken to mean that only Adam was to speak for God?\u00a0 If God meant that only Adam could be his spokesman, wouldn&#8217;t God have said that?<\/p>\n<p>3.\u00a0 If satan &#8220;deliberately defied&#8221; God&#8217;s ordained spokesman (the man) and instead he spoke directly to Eve in order to trick her into defying her husband&#8217;s ordained role of spokesman for the family, how come God never blamed the serpent for his failure to first address the man?\u00a0 How come Adam did not accuse the serpent of sin for &#8220;bypassing&#8221; him?\u00a0 Lastly why did Eve not admit to having been deceived into becoming a &#8220;spokesman&#8221; for Adam or for God?\u00a0 Why did she only admit to being deceived into eating the fruit?<\/p>\n<p>The answers to these questions are important especially since Piper and Grudem make such an issue of Adam being the designated leader that they make going past the designated leader to be the initial cause of ruin in the garden.\u00a0 They also make the bypassing of Adam so important, it becomes an excuse for Adam&#8217;s sin.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Men and women are both <em>more vulnerable to error and sin<\/em> when they forsake the order that God has intended. (My emphasis)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Let&#8217;s see if we can re-phrase Piper and Grudem&#8217;s argument.<\/p>\n<p>Adam was deceived by the lies of the serpent just as Eve was, but he was considered &#8220;not deceived&#8221; because his special role as spokesman for mankind, designated leader and defender of God was deliberately bypassed by satan.\u00a0 Satan&#8217;s first temptation was not a lie about God or a temptation to eat the fruit, but it was a temptation for Eve to illegally speak for God when she had never been ordained as a defender of God.\u00a0 Eve also had never been ordained to make a decision for herself.\u00a0 When she decided to take the fruit and eat it, she sinned against Adam bringing great &#8220;damage and ruin&#8221; by forsaking her designated decision-making leader.<\/p>\n<p>Any thoughts?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood has published a book called Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and on page 73, John Piper and Wayne Grudem write that Adam was ordained as the one responsible for the life of the garden.\u00a0 The reference is in response to a quote from 1 Timothy 2:14 where Adam is said to have not been deceived. Some take this as a proof that women are more gullible than men and easier to deceive, but&#8230;<\/p>\n<p class=\"read-more\"><a class=\"btn btn-default\" href=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/01\/22\/did-the-serpent-have-more-knowledge-than-man\/\"> Read More<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">  Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":[]},"categories":[10,13,42,51,52,67],"tags":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v20.2.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Did the serpent have more knowledge than man? - Women in Ministry<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/01\/22\/did-the-serpent-have-more-knowledge-than-man\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Did the serpent have more knowledge than man? - Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood has published a book called Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and on page 73, John Piper and Wayne Grudem write that Adam was ordained as the one responsible for the life of the garden.\u00a0 The reference is in response to a quote from 1 Timothy 2:14 where Adam is said to have not been deceived. 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Ortlund Jr., Mr. Ortlund redefines the creation account in such a way that God's creation of the male first is said to be necessary in order that the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Timothy 2&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/distort1.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":2513,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2012\/01\/10\/creation-rule\/","url_meta":{"origin":800,"position":1},"title":"What God intended at Creation &#8211; ruler or ruled?","date":"January 10, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"What did God intend at creation? It seems that everywhere we look these days, complementarian men are quoting the act of creation as God's intention to put the women underneath the rule of the man.\u00a0 They are also quick to note that there are two different kinds of rulership of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Adam and headship&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"Ruler or ruled? 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Ortlund, Jr. and called \"Male-Female Equality and Male Headship Genesis 1-3\" but honestly, I think it could be retitled \"The Emperor has no clothes\" a thoughtful comment from a\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;In the beginning - Genesis&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/fish1.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":66,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2006\/12\/11\/why-was-adam-not-deceived\/","url_meta":{"origin":800,"position":3},"title":"Why was Adam not deceived?","date":"December 11, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"1 Timothy 2:13, 14 show that the first creation of Adam is connected to the fact that Adam was not deceived. Why was Adam not deceived? If the Hebrew text shows that God created the animals in two creative acts - one before Adam was created and one after Adam\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Timothy 2&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1906,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2010\/03\/21\/eve-usurped-adam-authority\/","url_meta":{"origin":800,"position":4},"title":"Common objections to women in ministry: Eve usurped Adam&#8217;s authority","date":"March 21, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"Did Eve usurp Adam's Authority? In our continuing topic of common objections to women in ministry, we come to the claim that Eve usurped Adam's authority when she spoke to the serpent. To deal with this claim, we will be looking at both the claim that Eve rebelled against Adam\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Adam and Eve&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"man's authority on Women in Ministry Blog by Cheryl Schatz","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/03\/mans-authority-2.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":233,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/18\/eve-deceived-adam-not\/","url_meta":{"origin":800,"position":5},"title":"Eve was deceived, Adam was not","date":"May 18, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"For a PDF copy of this article click here Eve was Deceived pdf file This article is a refutation of Matt Slick\u2019s article that he has written in an attempt to refute my teaching on 1 Timothy 2:11-15. **While Matt Slick refuses to debate these teachings in writing on this\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Timothy 2&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/800"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=800"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/800\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3125,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/800\/revisions\/3125"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=800"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=800"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=800"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}