{"id":222,"date":"2008-05-06T23:50:48","date_gmt":"2008-05-07T06:50:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/?p=222"},"modified":"2017-06-18T15:18:20","modified_gmt":"2017-06-18T22:18:20","slug":"1tim2objections","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/06\/1tim2objections\/","title":{"rendered":"1 Timothy 2:11-15 answering objections to “a woman”"},"content":{"rendered":"

My article laying out the original argument showing that 1 Timothy 2:12 is a specific woman that Paul forbids from teaching is here<\/strong><\/a>.<\/p>\n

Matt Slick has put up several articles attempting to refute my reasoning and today I would like to answer Matt\u2019s \u201crefutation\u201d. This article will be an answer to Matt\u2019s article at http:\/\/www.carm.org\/womeninministry\/1Tim2_9-15specific.htm<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n

In Matt Slick\u2019s article he admits that \u201ca woman\u201d and \u201ca man\u201d could be a specific husband and wife. This is quite an admission from Matt since he has been trying to prove that it would be impossible for Paul to be referring to a specific woman. Since we already have that admission from Matt, we will let the context be the key to understanding Paul\u2019s meaning. Matt summarizes the egalitarian argument this way:<\/p>\n

\u201cOne of the interpretations given to these two verses is that there was a particular married woman who had been deceived (as Eve was deceived), was believing false teachings, was ignorant of the truth, and had been teaching false things to her husband\u2026Even though she was a fallacious teacher, she was being shown mercy because of our (sic) ignorance just as Paul said he was shown mercy due to his ignorance as he mentioned in 1 Timothy 1:13. Once the woman learns the truth, then she will be permitted to teach men and or her husband.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

At this point Matt writes that this interpretation would be reading into the text because the text says:<\/p>\n

\u201cabsolutely nothing about \u2018this woman\u2019 being deceived in ignorance. It isn\u2019t there. Nor is there anything prior to this text that would imply there was a woman was deceived.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

What Matt does is completely ignores Paul\u2019s connection between verse 12 and the reason for the prohibition in verse 14 as the deception of the woman. Since Paul is the one who connects the two, we cannot say that there is no mention of deception. We also find a connection to 1 Timothy 1:3 where Paul is instructing Timothy to stop certain people from teaching strange doctrines. The inspired text here doesn\u2019t say that Timothy is to stop certain \u201cmales\u201d but unnamed people teaching error. What has happened to some of these unnamed people who are teaching false doctrine? Paul said that some have turned aside from the truth. Another thing that Matt Slick completely misses in his article is the ones who turned aside from the truth are desiring to be teachers and they do not understanding what they are teaching:<\/p>\n

1 Timothy 1:7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

So there is a connection between 1 Timothy 1 & 2 because Paul is stopping teachers in chapter 1 and stopping a single teacher in chapter 2. The reason Paul gives in chapter 1 is that these teachers are teaching in ignorance and in chapter 2 Paul stops a woman teacher and he ties it in the deception of a woman, another strong connection to the ignorance of the false teachers in chapter 1.<\/p>\n

Paul also makes a clear difference in chapter 1 between those who are acting ignorantly in unbelief and those who know the truth and are distorting that truth.<\/p>\n

Matt then claims that there is nothing in the context to suggest that there is a woman who has been sincerely deceived and is ignorant of proper doctrines. But what Matt fails to state is that the only command in verses 11 & 12 is the command for Timothy to let \u201ca woman\u201d learn. The fact that Paul makes it mandatory that she is to learn is a strong indication that her teaching is faulty.<\/p>\n

Paul\u2019s command for her to learn ties in to chapter 1 where Paul says there are people who are ignorantly teaching error. We know one thing for sure. There is no evidence at all that Paul meant to stop godly people who are teaching correct biblical doctrine. Paul\u2019s theme of error and deception in the church is carried from false deceived teachers to \u201ca woman\u201d who must learn and must stop teaching and it ends with the deception of Eve in Chapter 2. For Matt Slick to say that there is no connection between ignorance (chapter 1 has ignorant people teaching error) or deception (chapter 2 has a deceived woman \u2013 verse 14) and the stopping of one teacher reveals Matt\u2019s prejudice.<\/p>\n

The next point that Matt tries to make is that Paul tells \u201ca woman\u201d in verse 12 to be quiet instead of telling her to be silent. Matt asks,<\/p>\n

\u201c\u2026if the verses are about a woman teaching false things to her husband, then shouldn\u2019t Paul tell her to stop doing it completely?\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The answer is very simple and understandable. If this is indeed a husband and wife situation, it would not be \u201cnormal\u201d for Paul to tell a wife that she could not say one word to her husband. For Matt to say that Paul would have had to tell this wife that she couldn\u2019t talk at all to her husband if she was a false teacher is completely illogical. Matt then puts words in Paul\u2019s mouth by saying that this would be telling her \u201cto speak her false doctrines a little more quietly\u201d and he asks \u201cDoes that make any sense?\u201d Matt\u2019s question doesn\u2019t make sense. The fact is that Paul could not interfere in a marriage and tell a specific wife that she could not talk to her husband at all. The term \u201cquiet\u201d in verse 12 most certainly refers back to the \u201cquiet\u201d from verse 11 where she is told to learn in a quiet manner. Paul\u2019s first concern is that she learns the truth in a quiet manner, not looking to continue to teach her error, but learning in a quiet manner. He is certainly not telling her that she can teach error, just a “little more quietly”. Paul said she is to be stopped from teaching. Her being in quietness then has nothing to do with continuing false teaching but with her place of learning (verse 11).<\/p>\n

Matt then tries to make an issue of the fact that the word \u201cteach\u201d that is forbidden in verse 12 is from the Greek word didasko (to teach) not heterodidaskaleo (to teach falsely). He asks,<\/p>\n

\u201cSo, if Paul is referring to a certain woman in 2:12 who is teaching false doctrine, then why does he not use the word heterdodaskaleo when referring to her teaching\u2026It doesn\u2019t make sense if the egalitarian position is true.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The answer is found in the book of Revelation. In Revelation 2:20, Jesus uses the same term for false teaching when he speaks to the church in Thyatira:<\/p>\n

Rev 2:20 ‘But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Here we see that Jezebel is teaching and leading in false doctrine, yet Jesus himself uses the term didasko. If Jesus can call false teaching \u201cdidasko\u201d, and it is also used this way in Revelation 2:14 and 15 then there is no problem in Paul using the same term to include false teaching. The proof that it is false teaching is in the context itself.<\/p>\n

The question that I would like to ask Matt back, is where does it make sense from the context of 1 Timothy that Paul was desiring to stop godly Christian women from teaching correct doctrine? No Old Testament passage ever forbids women to teach the bible to men, so why should we even consider that Paul\u2019s goal was to stop godly teaching instead of stopping false doctrine? It only makes sense to those who come to this passage with a preconceived view against women teachers.<\/p>\n

Next post will be part 2 of the review of Matt Slick\u2019s \u201crefutation\u201d of the \u201ca woman\u201d argument.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

My article laying out the original argument showing that 1 Timothy 2:12 is a specific woman that Paul forbids from teaching is here. Matt Slick has put up several articles attempting to refute my reasoning and today I would like to answer Matt\u2019s \u201crefutation\u201d. This article will be an answer to Matt\u2019s article at http:\/\/www.carm.org\/womeninministry\/1Tim2_9-15specific.htm In Matt Slick\u2019s article he admits that \u201ca woman\u201d and \u201ca man\u201d could be a specific husband and wife. This is quite an admission from…<\/p>\n

Read More Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":[]},"categories":[5,31,52],"tags":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"\n1 Timothy 2:11-15 answering objections to "a woman" - Women in Ministry<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/06\/1tim2objections\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"1 Timothy 2:11-15 answering objections to "a woman" - Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"My article laying out the original argument showing that 1 Timothy 2:12 is a specific woman that Paul forbids from teaching is here. 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See part one here. My article laying out the original argument showing that 1 Timothy 2:12 is a specific woman that Paul forbids from teaching is here. In Matt\u2019s article on CARM 1 Timothy\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "1 Timothy 2"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":224,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/09\/matt-slick-she-they\/","url_meta":{"origin":222,"position":1},"title":"Answering Matt Slick on she and they from 1 Timothy 2:15","date":"May 9, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"This is a continuation of my evaluation of Matt Slick\u2019s articles on women in ministry. Matt has been working for weeks to try to refute my interpretations. I welcome a challenge and I believe that truth will stand up to the test while error will not stand up to the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "1 Timothy 2"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":231,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/17\/woman-representative\/","url_meta":{"origin":222,"position":2},"title":"Is “a woman” representative of “all women”?","date":"May 17, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"This post is an answer to Matt Slicks article called \u201c1 Timothy 2:9-15 \u201ca woman\u201d is representative of all women as \u201ca man\u201drepresents all men\u201d. Matt has been trying to answer my arguments on 1 Timothy 2:111-15 and his article is an attempt at trying to prove that the Greek\"gune\"\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "1 Corinthians 11"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":233,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/18\/eve-deceived-adam-not\/","url_meta":{"origin":222,"position":3},"title":"Eve was deceived, Adam was not","date":"May 18, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"For a PDF copy of this article click here Eve was Deceived pdf file This article is a refutation of Matt Slick\u2019s article that he has written in an attempt to refute my teaching on 1 Timothy 2:11-15. **While Matt Slick refuses to debate these teachings in writing on this\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "1 Timothy 2"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":237,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/06\/09\/noodling-with-the-greek-grammar\/","url_meta":{"origin":222,"position":4},"title":"Noodling with the Greek grammar in 1 Timothy 2:15","date":"June 9, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"While I have made a very strong point of the Greek grammar in 1 Timothy 2:15 with the singular \"she\" and the plural \"they\" (no specific gender for \"they\"), some have been trying hard to wiggle out of the implications that Paul is referring to a specific woman because the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "1 Timothy 2"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":227,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2008\/05\/11\/only-one-verse\/","url_meta":{"origin":222,"position":5},"title":"Only one verse prohibits women to teach men?","date":"May 11, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"In my continuing review of CARM and Matt Slick\u2019s articles on women in ministry, this post is about Matt\u2019s article titled \u201cOnly one verse prohibits women to teach men, so it doesn\u2019t apply to the whole church\u201d Matt writes: First of all, if it is true that the Bible teaches\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "1 Timothy 2"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/222"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=222"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/222\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3630,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/222\/revisions\/3630"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=222"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=222"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=222"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}