{"id":1682,"date":"2009-11-30T16:19:10","date_gmt":"2009-11-30T23:19:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/?p=1682"},"modified":"2016-09-28T20:08:30","modified_gmt":"2016-09-29T03:08:30","slug":"does-god-torment-women","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/","title":{"rendered":"Examining the complementarian view: Does God like to torment women?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img data-attachment-id=\"1683\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/god-torment-women\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg?fit=400%2C281&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"400,281\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"Does God torment Women?  Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg?fit=300%2C210&amp;ssl=1\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg?fit=400%2C281&amp;ssl=1\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-1683\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg?resize=400%2C281\" alt=\"Does God torment Women? Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz\" width=\"400\" height=\"281\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg?w=400&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg?resize=300%2C210&amp;ssl=1 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/p>\n<h2>Is it a sin for a woman?<\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">There is a hot debate in the church today regarding whether a woman is in &#8220;sin&#8221; for teaching the Bible to men. \u00a0While some say that a godly woman&#8217;s teaching of the Bible is okay for use with women and children, but all teaching by women to men is considered sinful. \u00a0Others state that a woman may teach the Bible to men as long as it is in her home or perhaps outside on the lawn, but if she were to teach men inside a church building, she would immediately be involved in committing a sin.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">The issue of a &#8220;special sin&#8221; that is only applicable for one gender becomes complicated by the understanding that the church originally met only in people&#8217;s homes. \u00a0There were no designated church buildings during the early years of New Testament Christianity, so how could the &#8220;place&#8221; where she taught\u00a0rather than what she taught, be a source of sin for the godly Christian woman? However, there is an issue much deeper than just the issue of within what building men allow women to teach. \u00a0The issue is whether God taunts and torments a woman with gifts that she cannot use. \u00a0If God gifts a woman with the spiritual gifts of pastor or teacher is He tempting her to sin when she freely uses her God-given gifts for His glory and for the benefit of His body?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Let&#8217;s think this one through. \u00a0First of all, it is God&#8217;s Sovereign choice regarding whom He chooses to gift. \u00a0Many complementarians will freely admit that God has gifted women with the gift of pastor and the gift of teacher. \u00a0 If only a man is allowed to be a pastor, surely God would not gift a woman with a forbidden gift, would He?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><!--more-->Secondly, a spiritual gift is not passed on to a woman through the sin nature of her father so her &#8220;gift&#8221; cannot be the result of her sin nature. \u00a0 Logically the only source for a godly woman&#8217;s spiritual gifts can be God Himself. \u00a0Does God gift a woman as a pastor and then take away the gift because she is a woman? \u00a0This doesn&#8217;t seem reasonable. \u00a0God surely knew that she was a woman when he gifted her in the first place.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Why would God gift a woman and then charge her with sin for using her gift? Is it like our God to willing torment people with temptations to sin through the gift what He alone provides? \u00a0That can&#8217;t be right since the Bible says that God cannot tempt anyone.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">James 1:13 \u00a0Let no one say when he is tempted, &#8220;I am being tempted by God&#8221;; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">The problem extends further because God not only gifts us with His spiritual gifts, but He commands us to use these gifts for the common good.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">1 Peter 4:10 \u00a0As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">1 Peter 4:11 \u00a0Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.&lt;<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">I am not sure if complementarian men even understand the questions I am asking. \u00a0Has a man ever been gifted by God and then forbidden to use his gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ? \u00a0What would that feel like? \u00a0Would there be tension between a man&#8217;s passion <\/span>to serve the Lord Jesus and at the same time a holding back of his spirit because he is forbidden to fulfill his God-given desire<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">? \u00a0This kind of thing does happen in parts of the world where God has gifted and called men to serve Him, but they are forbidden by ungodly governments who want to destroy the church and prevent the gospel of Jesus from going forth. \u00a0But can we say that God joins these ungodly governments by restricting some from using their gifts for the benefit of the church?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">So where is the nature of God in this debate? \u00a0What does the Scripture say about God giving good gifts and then mocking women by charging them with sin for daring to use their gifts for the common good? \u00a0Doesn&#8217;t the Bible say that He will not withhold any good thing from those who walk righteously with Him?<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Psalm 84:11 \u00a0For the LORD God is a sun and shield; The LORD gives grace and glory; No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Is not being a part of the giving out of the gospel a good thing? \u00a0Is God going to go back on His promise and withhold women&#8217;s ministry to half of the body of Christ?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">How about this scripture:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Galatians 6:7 \u00a0Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Is the act of a woman <\/span>sowing<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> godly Christian doctrine into the lives of men an act that will reap eternal punishment in hell? \u00a0How dare we say such a thing?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">And what about these scriptures:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">1 Cor 6:9 \u00a0Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> 1 Cor 6:10 \u00a0nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> 1 Cor 6:11 \u00a0Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Is it also true that godly women who teach the Bible to men will not inherit the kingdom of God? \u00a0Shall we add &#8220;women pastors&#8221; to the list of those who will not inherit the kingdom of God because they dared to love their brothers in Christ enough to use their God-given gifts for the benefit of men? \u00a0In 1 Cor. 6:11 are we to add that &#8220;Women pastors or Bible teachers to men &#8211; such were some of you, but you have been washed from being a woman pastor, and you have been sanctified from being a godly woman Bible teacher to men? \u00a0Is this really how the Scripture reads?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Jesus described what defiles a man or a woman.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Matthew 15:10 \u00a0After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, &#8220;Hear and understand.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> Matthew 15:11 \u00a0&#8220;It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.&#8221;<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Does godly Bible teaching coming out of the mouth of a woman defile her?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Is it possible that some who restrict women from preaching the gospel to men are so in love with their own unlimited freedom in the body of Christ that they are <\/span>unwilling<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> even to think through this issue to release God&#8217;s women for service? \u00a0Is it possible that some are more than willing to portray God as One who tempts women to sin by gifting them with gifts that they dare not use for the common good?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Is it possible that some have a hardened heart which is quick to attribute sin to a God&#8217;s wonderful gifts?<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Matthew 15:7 \u00a0&#8220;You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> Matthew 15:8 \u00a0&#8216;THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"> Matthew 15:9 \u00a0&#8216;BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'&#8221;<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is it a sin for a woman? There is a hot debate in the church today regarding whether a woman is in &#8220;sin&#8221; for teaching the Bible to men. \u00a0While some say that a godly woman&#8217;s teaching of the Bible is okay for use with women and children, but all teaching by women to men is considered sinful. \u00a0Others state that a woman may teach the Bible to men as long as it is in her home or perhaps outside&#8230;<\/p>\n<p class=\"read-more\"><a class=\"btn btn-default\" href=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/\"> Read More<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">  Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":[]},"categories":[31,71,72],"tags":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v20.2.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Examining the complementarian view: Does God like to torment women? - Women in Ministry<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Does God has a &quot;special&quot; sin reserved for women in that He gifts women but then tempts them to sin when they teach for the common good?\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Examining the complementarian view: Does God like to torment women? - Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Does God has a &quot;special&quot; sin reserved for women in that He gifts women but then tempts them to sin when they teach for the common good?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-11-30T23:19:10+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2016-09-29T03:08:30+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/11\/god-torment-women.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Cheryl Schatz\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Cheryl Schatz\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/\",\"name\":\"Examining the complementarian view: Does God like to torment women? - Women in Ministry\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-11-30T23:19:10+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2016-09-29T03:08:30+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/#\/schema\/person\/d7a33503fddaf9e8c392972b2801441a\"},\"description\":\"Does God has a \\\"special\\\" sin reserved for women in that He gifts women but then tempts them to sin when they teach for the common good?\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/11\/30\/does-god-torment-women\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Examining the complementarian view: Does God like to torment women?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/\",\"name\":\"Women in Ministry\",\"description\":\"This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting. 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Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz discussion\/debate on women in ministry","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/07\/men_restricted1.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1054,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/06\/15\/semigalitariansim-and-feminist-air\/","url_meta":{"origin":1682,"position":1},"title":"Semigalitariansim, undercover enemy and &#8220;feminist air&#8221;","date":"June 15, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Semigalitarianism, Undercover Enemy and \"feminist air\" When does explaining God's Word make one an enemy of the church?\u00a0 According to Mike Seaver, a woman who is allowed to teach the Word of God to men, even if she is under the authority of her husband and even if she has\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Corinthians 14&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"torah7-Cheryl-Schatz on Women in Ministry","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/06\/torah7.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1279,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/08\/19\/mike-seaver-and-cheryl-schatz-debate-6\/","url_meta":{"origin":1682,"position":2},"title":"Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz discuss\/debate women in ministry 6","date":"August 19, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Who's the Boss? In the last blog post Cheryl Schatz posed her third set of questions to Mike Seaver regarding their debate on women in ministry. Links to all the previous questions and responses is at the end of this post. \u00a0This discussion will be Cheryl's response to Mike's answers\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Corinthians 14&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/08\/men-bible.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1495,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/09\/19\/evaluating-schatz-seaver-debate\/","url_meta":{"origin":1682,"position":3},"title":"Evaluating the Schatz\/Seaver debate","date":"September 19, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"\u00a0 Debate On July 27th, 2009 Mike Seaver and I started a ten session debate on Women in Ministry where I was able to ask Mike questions on his position, he answered my questions and then we each had one response. \u00a0Mike is still considering whether he will continue with\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Corinthians 11&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"Evaluating the Schatz\/Seaver debate","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/09\/path.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1509,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2010\/04\/29\/why-let-women-lead-bible-studies\/","url_meta":{"origin":1682,"position":4},"title":"Complementarians, why let women lead Bible studies?","date":"April 29, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"CBMW (Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood) has set itself up as a go-to organization for those complementarians who have not been able to figure out from the Bible which things are allowable for women and which things are not. \u00a0But does their counsel exceed the Bible? \u00a0I would like\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Timothy 2&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/09\/woman-bible-teacher.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1181,"url":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/2009\/07\/22\/wayne-grudem-6\/","url_meta":{"origin":1682,"position":5},"title":"Answering Wayne Grudem&#8217;s \u201cOpen letter to Egalitarians\u201d 6","date":"July 22, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Answering Wayne Grudem This is the part 6 of answering Wayne Grudem\u2019s \u201cOpen Letter to Egalitarians\u201d and his \u201cSix\u00a0Questions That Have Never Been Satisfactorily Answered\u201d. \u00a0Today I am posting his sixth question,\u00a0Suzanne McCarthy\u2019s answer and my own questions below that. Question #6 from Wayne Grudem: 6. Women teaching false doctrine\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;1 Timothy 2&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/07\/grudem6a.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1682"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1682"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1682\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3288,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1682\/revisions\/3288"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1682"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1682"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1682"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}