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In the last blog post Cheryl Schatz posed her third set of questions to Mike Seaver<\/a><\/strong> regarding their debate on women in ministry. Links to all the previous questions and responses is at the end of this post. \u00a0This discussion will be Cheryl’s response to Mike’s answers on question #3 and Mike’s rejoinder.<\/span><\/p>\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<\/span><\/p>\n Mike, I would like to once again to affirm you as a person and as a dear brother in Christ. \u00a0I appreciate that you have taken the time to listen to my questions and to give your answers.<\/span><\/p>\n Regarding your answer, where does the scripture say that being taught by a person places you under their authority<\/span>? \u00a0Is Apollos said to be under the authority of Priscilla when she taught him? \u00a0No it does not. This is the world\u2019s way of thinking that has creeped into the church. \u00a0We are always thinking about who is the boss but Jesus said that the greatest is to be the servant of all, not the boss of all. \u00a0Leading and teaching is a position of servanthood and it is not a place of taking authority over<\/em><\/strong> the student. \u00a0 The reason is because humans are not the authority. \u00a0God\u2019s word is the authority.<\/span><\/p>\n If a woman teaches another woman, the second woman is not\u00a0\u201c<\/span><\/span>under the authority<\/em><\/strong>\u201d of the first woman. \u00a0Since God\u2019s Word is the authority, we can correct others and test them<\/em><\/strong> by God\u2019s word. No human teacher is to take \u201cauthority over\u201d someone who is learning from them. \u00a0Instead of authority, we are to be a servant of all including our students. \u00a0We are there to serve them not lord it over them. \u00a0The student is to test all things and to hold fast to what is good because the teacher is not the standard<\/em><\/strong> \u2013 the Word of God is!<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n Where does the bible say that women cannot preach sermons<\/em><\/strong>? Can a woman preach a sermon to women? \u00a0If not, why not? \u00a0There is no biblical restriction against women preaching the word of God. \u00a0In fact the OT shows that it is God\u2019s command that women proclaim the good news.<\/span><\/p>\n Psalm 68:11 \u00a0The Lord gives the command; The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host:<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n If women are to evaluate other women teachers, then what happened to the so-called standard taught by complementarians that men are to be the overseers of the congregation? \u00a0Are women now to be overseers of half of the congregation?<\/span><\/p>\n Mike, I think what has happened here is that you are giving your opinion<\/em><\/strong> that men listening to women teach the bible are themselves going against the scripture. \u00a0Yet there is not a single word in the bible instructing men to stay away from women teachers in case they might hear them teach. \u00a0Nor is there a word that men listening to women are sinning. \u00a0It is also obvious that male overseers would oversee (protect) the entire congregation not just the men. \u00a0Yet does the bible say specifically that men should oversee the women teachers? \u00a0The bible doesn’t address this, but the fact that the bible is silent on this matter does not mean that men should not oversee women lest they accidentally listen to them teach. \u00a0It just means that there is no difference between a woman servant and a man servant so there is no need for God to give multiple instructions for men on how to oversee women.<\/span><\/p>\n Also we can think<\/em><\/strong> that having a man listen to a woman teacher is \u201cgoing against Scripture\u201d but there is no such command to men or even a hint of such a thing. \u00a0When we go against the scripture and take a verse out of its context (1 Timothy 2:12 was written to an individual about specific problems in that church) we create a way to allow men to devalue women. \u00a0If a man is told that he isn\u2019t allowed to listen to women teach the bible, what is he going to think about her teaching? \u00a0Would it not be normal that he would think that he is the one gifted to teach the church and she is an inferior teacher whose value is far less than his own value as a teacher? \u00a0We do a great disservice to the body of Christ by telling men that they are not allowed to listen to women teach the bible. \u00a0We create a division between males and females and we divide up by body of Christ into the elite and the non-elite. \u00a0This is not the way of the Master.<\/span><\/p>\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<\/span><\/p>\n Cheryl, thanks for your response. \u00a0It seems odd to me that your entire case for the first part of your answer is that there is no such thing as \u201cauthority\u201d in the church\u2026that the Word of God is the authority and then you spend the second part of your answer saying that there is inferiority if women cannot teach men, just showing a type of authority system.<\/span><\/p>\n I have never said that women could not preach or teach (or however you want to say it) other women. \u00a0I\u2019ve said they should not teach or exercise authority over a man because of 1 Timothy 2:12.<\/span><\/p>\n I agree that men (overseers\/elders\/pastors) should oversee women as you said. \u00a0You said, \u201c. \u00a0\u201c\u00a0It is also obvious that male overseers would oversee (protect) the entire congregation not just the men. \u00a0Yet does the bible say specifically that men should oversee the women teachers? \u00a0The bible doesn’t address this, but the fact that the bible is silent on this matter does not mean that men should not oversee women lest they accidentally listen to them teach.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n I completely agree with you. \u00a0The male overseer\/pastors\/elders do oversee the entire church\u2026that is their job as shepherds. \u00a0They care for all of the sheep in their church. \u00a0I don\u2019t think that care is diminished if a pastor\u2019s wife evaluates a ladies message instead of him sitting in the room. \u00a0I don\u2019t think it is a problem for him to sit in on a woman teaching in order to evaluate her either. \u00a0I know you may say, \u201cWell, he is placing himself under her teaching and authority\u201d but I don\u2019t think that is what he is doing when evaluating is his motive.<\/span><\/p>\n As for the idea that we are under the Bible\u2019s authority and not the teacher\u2019s authority, I\u2019m baffled by your response. \u00a0Of course we are ultimately under God\u2019s authority and God\u2019s Word is authoritative, but the teacher brings authority. \u00a0What does it mean to be an overseer if you are not overseeing anything? \u00a0What does it mean to be a shepherd under the authority of the Chief Shepherd if there is not an authority structure in place? \u00a0What does Peter mean in 1 Peter 5: 2 when he tells elders to \u201cshepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight?\u201d if the teaching that they provide does not bring authority? \u00a0He goes on to say, \u201cnot domineering over those in your charge.\u201d \u00a0So, the temptation Peter sees is for elders to domineer\u2026but he also says, \u201cthose in your charge.\u201d \u00a0I don\u2019t think this is a worldly philosophy that comes outside of Scripture. \u00a0Authority is good, it is biblical, it is helpful if those in authority are humble and those under authority are submissive. \u00a0God designed it that way, so we can celebrate it!<\/span><\/p>\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<\/span><\/p>\n The next post in this debate will be Cheryl’s fourth question to Mike and Mike’s answer.<\/span><\/p>\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<\/span><\/p>\n Question #1 and Mike\u2019s answers<\/strong><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n Responses to Question #1<\/strong><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n Question #2 and Mike\u2019s answers<\/strong><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n Responses to Question #2<\/strong><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n Question #3 by Cheryl and Mike\u2019s answers<\/a><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n Responses to Question #3<\/a><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n Question #4 by Cheryl and Mike’s answers<\/a><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n Responses to Question #4<\/a><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n Question #5 by Cheryl and Mike’s answers<\/a><\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nCheryl’s response:<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/h3>\n
Mike’s rejoinder:<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/h3>\n
Links to all segments of the debate:<\/span><\/h2>\n