![\"hands\"](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/05\/hands.jpg?resize=350%2C383&ssl=1\" "\\"hands\\"")
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This is the ninth in a series of simulated interviews with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day.<\/p>\n
Doug, a strong complementarian will be questioning Paul on 1 Corinthians 14.\u00a0 Paul will be speaking to him about the Sovereignty of God and whether there are restrictions on women in the church.\u00a0 Let\u2019s listen in.\u00a0 (Links to the previous interviews are at the bottom of this post.)<\/p>\n
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Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Paul, I am anxious to talk about 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 today.\u00a0 This is the final passage that convinced me that you did not allow women to teach the bible to the entire congregation.\u00a0 This is also one of the clearest passages there is.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>I am very happy to be able to help you out with this passage.\u00a0 We do need to remember the complete context of this passage so that you will know how to interpret it in line with all that I taught.\u00a0 We are going to work with another box today.\u00a0 Today the box will be the filter that we need to read 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 through.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Why do we need a filter?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Because people easily misunderstand me.\u00a0 My writings are very deep and some people think that they can skim the surface, cherry pick out an individual verse apart from its context and run with it.\u00a0\u00a0 That is why there is so much confusion on my writings. \u00a0 Those who are unstable, are prone to distort what I taught.\u00a0 Look what Peter said about my writings:<\/p>\n 2 Peter 3:15\u00a0 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,<\/p>\n 2 Peter 3:16\u00a0 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand<\/strong>, which the untaught and unstable distort<\/strong>, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n My writings must be understood in the context that they are written in.\u00a0 I have provided a filter in each complex passage that will define the way the passage is to be read.\u00a0 Are you ready to find the filter?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Ah…sure.\u00a0 Show me what you define as a filter in this passage.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>The foundation is set in 1 Corinthians 12 and the\u00a0 filter is defined in verses 7, 11 and 18-25.\u00a0 Let’s start by having you read verses 17 and 18 and then verse 11.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:17\u00a0 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians\u00a0 12:18\u00a0 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:11\u00a0 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Paul, what are we looking at here?<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>The first part of the filter is that God is Sovereign<\/strong><\/em> and He sets the members of the body wherever He wants<\/strong><\/em> and He gives the gifts out to whoever He wills.\u00a0 So let’s mark down:<\/p>\n 1.\u00a0 God sets the members<\/em><\/p>\n In verse 17 I wrote that “God has placed<\/strong><\/em> the members…in the body, j<\/strong>ust as He desired<\/strong><\/em>.”\u00a0 The fact is that God is the one who gifts and God is the one who places.\u00a0 It is all God’s prerogative.\u00a0 Do you have any problem with that?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I am with you 100% because I believe in the Sovereignty of God.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Good.\u00a0 Now let’s go to the second part of the filter.\u00a0 It is found in 1 Corinthians 12:21.<\/p>\n 1\u00a0 Corinthians 12:21\u00a0 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The second part of the filter is the fact that the body to not given permission to deny their own need for each member<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 So let’s mark down the second part of the filter as:<\/p>\n 2.\u00a0 Members cannot deny other members<\/em>.<\/p>\n The next part of the filter is found in 1 Corinthians 12:22-24<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:22\u00a0 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; Doug:<\/span><\/strong> What does this part of the filter mean?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>It means that honor is required to be given to those who seem weaker and less honorable in our eyes<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 I will give you an example of this in just a bit.<\/p>\n So let’s add to our list this point:<\/p>\n 3.\u00a0\u00a0 Greater honor given to those who seemingly lack honor<\/em><\/p>\n The next point is the reason that we have need for this filter.\u00a0 It is found in 1 Corinthians 12:25:<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:25\u00a0 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The reason that we need this filter is because we are in need of equal care so that we have no schism or no division in the body.\u00a0 Let’s add this last point to our list:<\/p>\n 4.\u00a0\u00a0 No schism<\/p>\n Now let’s take a look at the filter that we have created from 1 Corinthians 12.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Well that is a pretty nice looking filter, but how does that apply to 1 Corinthians 14?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>It is the filter through which we must understand all what I wrote about the church and its function.\u00a0 Let’s look at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 14 to see the filter in action.\u00a0\u00a0 Before first lets provide a name for this filter.\u00a0 The name is found in 1 Corinthians 12:7 –<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:7\u00a0 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good<\/strong>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Everything that God does in body ministry is ultimately for the common good.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Does this make sense to you so far?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Yes, pretty much.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Alright then, let’s see this filter in action.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:12\u00a0 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n How would you see this verse looking through the filter I set up?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Since your filter is for the common good<\/strong><\/em> of the body verse 12 aligns up with that filter since you stated that our zeal for spiritual gifts should be focused on what is for the benefit of the entire body.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Excellent.\u00a0 Now let’s look at verse 16.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:16\u00a0\u00a0 When you give thanks to God in spirit only, how can ordinary people (the ungifted, uneducated) taking part in the meeting say “Amen” to your prayer of thanksgiving? They have no way of knowing what you are saying.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n How can we see this verse through the filter?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> It seems to me that\u00a0 honor is given to those who lack the gift so that they do not miss out in the worship.\u00a0 We honor them by making sure they are edified by all.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>That is right!\u00a0 Those who are uneducated and not gifted in the area of tongues must be considered so that they are not left out.\u00a0 What other part of the filter works here?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> It would be #4 that there is to be no schism in the body.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Good job!\u00a0 You are doing very well in applying the filter.\u00a0 The use of the spiritual gifts is for the common good.\u00a0 Since speaking in tongues without an interpreter would not edify those who do not understand the tongues, the focus is to be on edifying everyone not just a few.\u00a0 Okay here is a verse that might be a little harder for you to see through the filter and make an application.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:1\u00a0 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> This one seems to be against the Sovereignty of God.\u00a0 It says that we all can purse the gifts especially the gift of prophesy.\u00a0 Wouldn’t this make prophesy as a gift subject to those who desire it instead of what God wills?\u00a0 Looks like you have a problem with this one.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>No problem at all.\u00a0 Verse 11 says:<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:11\u00a0 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills<\/strong>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The Holy Spirit gives the gifts as He wills, but it is His will that everyone desires to prophesy<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 We may not all be gifted the same but we all are allowed to speak and share what we do have.\u00a0 So here we still have God setting the members in the body, but all are allowed to be heard.\u00a0 There is no division between the haves and the have nots.\u00a0 Verses 23 and 24 show that the entire church may prophesy.\u00a0 What is the result of allowing all to prophesy?\u00a0 Look at verse 31:<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:31\u00a0 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> It says that all can prophesy “so that” all will have the opportunity to learn and all have the opportunity to be exhorted.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Absolutely!\u00a0 And which part of the filter can we see this one through?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> #4 There is to be no schism or no division in the body.\u00a0 All can prophesy, all can learn and all can be exhorted.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>One last example for you and then we will go into the hard passage.\u00a0 How do you read verses 29 and 30 together with verse 31 with the filter that I set up?<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:29\u00a0 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. Here we have a person who is “first” speaking yet they are to be silent and give the floor to another one who is seated.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I am not really sure how this one fits in.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Here is a clue – the “first one” yields<\/em><\/strong> to another who is exercising their gift.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Okay, let me take a crack at this one.\u00a0 One member even if he is the prominent one (first one) speaking is to honor the one who is sitting down and who does not have the honor of first place.\u00a0 I could see that one through #3 Greater honor is given to those who lack honor.<\/strong><\/em> The one who has the honor of speaking first can give up their rights in order to give honor to one who is sitting amongst the body.\u00a0 I can also see #2 Members cannot deny other members the use of their gifts.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>I am amazed at how quickly you are catching on.\u00a0 What I was speaking about in this passage is true body ministry.\u00a0 Those in a place of honor will allow others to speak.\u00a0 They will not deny the use of the gifts of others members so that everyone will have an opportunity to be encouraged and everyone will be ministered to.\u00a0 No one will say that the gift that someone else has is not needed by them.\u00a0 In fact we are told that no member of the body can<\/strong><\/em> say “I do not need you” to another member of the body.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I got another one.\u00a0 We can also see #4 No schism or division in the body of Christ.\u00a0 The body is not divided into those who are allowed to speak and those who are not allowed to speak.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>You have it down pat.\u00a0 Now it is time to view 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 through this filter.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:34\u00a0 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. How are these two verses seen through the filter?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> You changed everything with these verses.\u00a0 They don’t fit.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Tell me in what way they don’t fit.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Well in #1 you said that God is the one who sets the members in the body and God is the one who said that all can desire to prophesy but now you<\/strong><\/em> are saying that women are not allowed to speak.\u00a0 Then you also said in #2 that members cannot deny other members that they are needed or that they can use their gifts, but you are definitely denying women from using their gifts.\u00a0 Also in #3 there isn’t any honor at all given to women.\u00a0 They are told that they are to learn at home and they aren’t even given an opportunity to learn let alone speak.\u00a0 The last one #4 says that there isn’t to be a schism in the body, but there definitely is a division when you have ones who are allowed to speak and ones who are forbidden to speak.\u00a0 Yet I have to hold fast to the Bible and understand that women are to be silent in the church since that is clearly what you said.\u00a0 I can’t make it fit the filter, but it is there in black and white and I must obey.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Doesn’t it seem odd to you that everything up to this point fits through the filter except these two verse?\u00a0 Doesn’t it seem odd to you that you are rejecting all the verses freeing women to minister in their gifts, in order to hold tightly to these two verse?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> But I absolutely cannot reject scripture.\u00a0 I must hold to all of it because rejecting these verses would make me a liberal.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Am I a liberal?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> How could you be, you are the Apostle Paul.<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>But I rejected this two verses.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> What do you mean?<\/p>\n Paul: <\/span><\/strong>Throughout 1 Corinthians I had been dealing with questions and problems brought to my attention by Chloe’s people.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 1:11\u00a0 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n In 1 Corinthians I was addressing the contentious items, quarrels and questions brought to me.\u00a0 I was answering their letter.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 7:1\u00a0 Now concerning the things about which you wrote<\/strong>, …<\/p><\/blockquote>\n There were questions about the married and unmarried, questions about divorce, questions about things offered to idols, questions about spiritual gifts and about the way that collections should be taken up for the church in Jerusalem.\u00a0 There was also a quarrel brought to me about the position of women in the congregation.\u00a0 Those who wanted to forbid women from speaking were appealing to the Jewish oral law of the Pharisees who restricted women from public speaking and who also restricted women from public learning.\u00a0 In 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 I quoted exactly what was being said in this dispute and which had been brought to me in order for me to settle the dispute.<\/p>\n After I quoted the words of those who wanted to split the church into two groups – those who had permission to speak and those who were forbidden to speak (a dividing line drawn by gender) I really lost my cool.\u00a0 I said what??!!<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:36 Did the word of God go out from you, or (what??!!) did it come to you only?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The expression that I used is not often translated in your English Bibles, and sometimes it is just translated as “or”,\u00a0 but it has a strong meaning in the Greek.\u00a0 It is a marker of a disjunctive particle which separates opposites which are mutually exclusive.\u00a0 In this passage it is set up as a negative answer joining rhetorical or parallel questions to preceding statements (Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4<\/em>: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament<\/em>. Baker’s Greek New Testament library (188). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.)<\/span><\/p>\n You see these men were acting as if the word of God first went out through men alone.\u00a0 But that isn’t true.\u00a0 In fact the very first message of the gospel, the resurrection of Christ came through women.\u00a0 God commissioned the women to give the gospel to the men.\u00a0 Women were not forbidden to bring the word of God to the men instead they were picked to be the very first apostles of the resurrection.\u00a0 And who is the Word of God brought to?\u00a0 Only men?\u00a0 I am seeing red again as I answer these Pharisees who wish to elevate men and exclude women.\u00a0 What they are saying is what the oral law of the Pharisees says, but God did not bring the gospel to only<\/strong><\/em> the men.\u00a0 The women are instructed to learn right alongside the men.\u00a0 You see, brother Doug, I was disputing the claims of these egotistical men who wanted to claim that the gospel belonged only in the hands of men.\u00a0 These men were dividing the church of the living God and bringing a schism into its midst.\u00a0 They were trying to hold back the women of God and stop them from ministering.\u00a0 They said that the<\/strong>y<\/strong><\/em> did not need the women! They said that the word of God is properly only brought out to the men and from the men.\u00a0\u00a0 Those were ignorant, unstable and prideful men!\u00a0 Now don’t get me started or I may really speak my mind!<\/p>\n Brother, Doug, look at the next thing I wrote:<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:37\u00a0 If anyone thinks [that he] is a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge what I write to you, that they are commandments of [the] Lord.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The “law” that is quoted in verse 34 is not found<\/strong><\/em> in the scriptures, because it is merely a private law of man.\u00a0 But I countered with the things of God that are found in the scriptures.\u00a0 Those who claim to be spiritual and those who claim that they are a prophet need to recognize that the things I had written<\/strong><\/em> throughout chapters 12 and 14 are the Lord’s commandments<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 And all of the things<\/strong><\/em> that I wrote match the filter that I gave you.<\/p>\n Do you see that Doug?\u00a0 Everything I wrote shows the Sovereignty of God and his plan to set the members in the body of Christ as He chooses<\/strong><\/em> as well as He gifts those who desire to edify the body.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 14:5\u00a0 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy…<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Do you see that this is for “all” not just “some”?<\/p>\n Everything I wrote shows that one member cannot stand as the gate keeper holding back another member from ministering to the body.\u00a0 Everyone is needed and everyone should serve as they are gifted.\u00a0 We are also told to honor those who are not in a position of honor.\u00a0 Lift them up.\u00a0 Let them speak.\u00a0 Give them honor even before the vocal ones who have first place.\u00a0 And lastly everything I wrote makes it clear that there is to be no division, no schism in the church.<\/p>\n I am going to leave you with this one last scripture.<\/p>\n 1 Corinthians 12:28\u00a0 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Brother Doug, it is God who has appointed all of these gifted people in the church.\u00a0 If he has appointed and gifted women as teachers are you going to say that you have no need of them?\u00a0 Are you going to deny that the church as a whole needs them?\u00a0 Are you going to separate out the women teachers and place them in a corner to minister to each other or are you going to let the Holy Spirit have His way operating in the way that He has chosen and gifted?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I feel cut to the heart and convicted.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Go in peace and think about what I have said.\u00a0 I must take my leave and I do not know if I will ever be allowed to travel down this time tunnel again.\u00a0 I trust that God will reveal all things to you so that you no longer have a prejudice against your sisters in Christ.\u00a0 Remember there are to be no divisions, no schisms and the members are to have equal care for each other.<\/p>\n (The first interview with the Apostle Paul and Doug is located here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The\u00a0 second interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The third interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The fourth interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The fifth interview is here<\/a><\/strong>.\u00a0 The sixth interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The seventh interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The eighth interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" This is the ninth in a series of simulated interviews with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day. Doug, a strong complementarian will be questioning Paul on 1 Corinthians 14.\u00a0 Paul will be speaking to him about the Sovereignty of God and whether there are restrictions on women in the church.\u00a0 Let\u2019s listen in.\u00a0 (Links to the…<\/p>\n
\n1 Corinthians 12:23\u00a0 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,
\n1 Corinthians 12:24\u00a0 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked,<\/p><\/blockquote>\n![\"Filter4](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/05\/filter4-1.jpg?resize=234%2C350&ssl=1\")
<\/p>\n![\"Filter](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/05\/filter-final-1.jpg?resize=234%2C350&ssl=1\")
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\n1 Corinthians 14:30\u00a0 If a revelation is made to another person who is seated, the first person should be silent.
\n1 Corinthians 14:31\u00a0 For everyone can prophesy in turn, so that everyone can be instructed and everyone can be encouraged.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
\n1 Corinthians 14:35\u00a0 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/p>\n